RE: Auditor's questions Was: Active subsystems -- MIDRANGE-L

I know personally one auditor, early on in the PC days, where a really BIG government agency asked one particular (civilian) internal auditor to write a guide for auditing all their PC's. That auditor told her superiors she didn't have a clue about PCs. Word came back from D.C. that it didn't matter, do it anyway.

Reminds me now of another programmer who had learned RPG in the Air Force. They had a saying: "Good enough for government work".

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Paul Nelson
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 4:58 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: Auditor's questions Was: Active subsystems

I thought of that, but I was having a "Get off my lawn" moment.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 3:52 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Auditor's questions Was: Active subsystems

Provide her with the PTF cover letters. It's not like she's going to read them.
She just wanted documentation.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

From: "Paul Nelson" <nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'"
<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 01/23/2015 04:47 PM
Subject: RE: Auditor's questions Was: Active subsystems
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Good point. Auditors who understand IT are as scarce as hen's teeth.

Last summer, I had one who wanted to know why some objects in QSYS had
different dates than others. I explained that those were probably the
result
of service packs. She wanted to know if there was documentation backing
them
up. Trying to be helpful, I discovered that they were part of a security
patch.

She still wanted documentation. I explained nicely that IBM does not
provide
info about security patches. She still wanted documentation.

I then told her that IBM would not provide that information to either Mr.
Ernst or to Mr. Young. She finally got the message.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of
Krill, Coy
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 3:38 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Auditor's questions Was: Active subsystems

It would be the number of possibly inane hoops you have to jump through to
prove anything to a DFI or FDIC auditor who doesn't understand IT. One
year
we went round and round about them saying that our network diagram
showed
undocumented connections meaning that they were not in narrative. It came
down to arguing over whether a network diagram can or should use the
standard visual for two lines that are crossed on paper but not connected
in
reality (one of them has a half loop in it). When you waste literally
hours
doing that, then you adopt a don't ask don't tell approach and use as many
hand-waives as possible to get them right out the door. Just to be clear
that was at my former employer, where I work now, we just document
everything to the nth degree and have management who understands the
details
to insulate the workers from the nitpicketty of the government auditors. I
will also say that I have had the pleasure of working with two auditors
who
did understand IT, so it's not all of them, it's just most of them :-)

Coy Krill
Core Processing Administrator/Analyst
Washington Trust Bank

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of
Rich
Loeber
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 12:55
To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Auditor's questions Was: Active subsystems
Importance: Low

Hello list.

This discussion begs the question "Why are we trying to work around the
auditors?" Wouldn't it be better for the organization to work WITH the
audit function? Isn't that what the audit process is supposed to do?

Just askin'

Rich
-------------------------

Quoting "Krill, Coy" <CKrill@xxxxxxxxxxx>:

At my last employer, we relied heavily on the fact that the auditors
only cared about compilers. We did lots of "advanced scripting", but
no programming cuz we didn't use any compilers... I might write a
script in Python or Groovy that manipulated data, started jobs, ended
jobs, moved spooled files, etc. but as long as it was only done with
a scripting language they really were not concerned and if I was
running the script from my PC and not on the "core" then they really
didn't care. I worked there for 10 years and that's how it went year
after year... The part that really killed me was that they never put
two and two together that my SQL UDFs and Stored Procs were compiled
into C language Service Programs by the system. Guess it doesn't
count if I don't invoke the compiler directly.

Coy Krill
Core Processing Administrator/Analyst
Washington Trust Bank

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of

rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 11:11
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Auditor's questions Was: Active subsystems
Importance: Low

Interesting. So, do auditors not care if you modify anything written
in scripted languages? Only compiled languages? So if you store each
step for a CL program in a file, can you then modify that file to
your hearts content and not have to worry about documenting the
changes to the auditors? If so, does it matter if the 'steps' are
stored in a data file versus a source file? If not, then can you
just have a CRTCLPGM to 'gather' the script for execution?

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept
1600 Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com

From: Roger Harman <roger.harman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-

l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Date: 01/23/2015 01:52 PM
Subject: RE: Active subsystems
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

I used to drive the whole QSTRUP job from files. Subsystems, Writers,
NEP's. Had all the parms including delays and sequence.

Made the startup program pretty small and I never had to answer to
auditors about changes to it.

Roger Harman

COMMON Certified Application Developer ? ILE RPG on IBM i on Power

OCEAN User Grouphttp://www.ocean400.org

----------------------------------------

From: PSteinmetz@xxxxxxxxxx
To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Active subsystems
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2015 18:02:13 +0000

Several reasons I would not depend a file to start susbsystems in

QSTRUP.

1) There could be instances where the file is not accurate.
2) The order in which subsystems start is sometimes important.
3) Some subsystem starts may need to be followed by a delay

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of

Paul Nelson

Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 12:49 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: Active subsystems

I caught that when I reviewed the programmer's first pass at the

program(s).

:-)

We agreed to add a scheduler job to populate the active subsystem file

every day at noon. The boot programs read that file.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of

Steinmetz, Paul

Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 11:35 AM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: Active subsystems

Paul,

How does your QSTRUP program know which subsystems to start.
None will be active following an IPL, so QSCLASBS would return an empty

list.

Am I missing something here?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of

Paul Nelson

Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 12:12 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: Active subsystems

I'm pleased to report that QWCLASBS is the way to go. We wrote a

routine

that runs in the job scheduler at noon every day.

The boot programs read that file twice, starting the IBM subsystems

first, followed by the other subsystems.

Using that file sure simplifies the boot programs.

Thanks, all.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of

Gary Thompson

Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 7:50 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Active subsystems

Maybe some info from QWCLASBS - List Active Subsystems ?

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of

Paul Nelson

Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 6:45 AM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: Active subsystems

List,

I'm working on a project for a client to build a utility to bring their

IPL programs (32 of them) under change control. Each program will be

named

the same as the box and deployed from Aldon to make the auditors happy.

I

don't want to have to sift through 32 different programs to determine

the

subsystems that need to be started during a reboot.

I know that TAATOOL has some commands allowing one to retrieve the

status of a subsystem and the library from which it's started, but not

all

systems have that product.

Has anybody figured out a way using the standard OS to be able to write

the active subsystem information to a file and have the IPL program read
that?

Thanks

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

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