RE: Backup question

I think the problem is that hairs are being split on both sides of this
conversation.

As you originally said, "In our case, the commands were: SAVSYS, SAVLIB,
SAVDLO, and SAV, with appropriate options." These are part of the IBM
backup functions and those functions and their corresponding restore
functions will be supported, assuming that you have a support contract.

You are not using the IBM GO SAVE option 21. So the IBM GO RESTORE
option 21 may not be supported.

Many years ago a hotel in Rochester had an AS/400 that had a disk
failure and needed a restore. They were running an unsupported release
of the O/S and their only backup was years old and incomplete. They
didn't have a support contract at all, but they made the front page of
the local paper when they posted a sign in their lobby that read "Our
AS/400 crashed and IBM refused to help us!"

No one can help you restore data that you failed to save in the first
place. No one can fix your DR plan after the disaster occurs. There is
no substitute for personally testing your DR plan and verifying that it
does what you intend it to do. Even if you use GO SAVE option 21.

Display your full system backup tape. If the first file is QFILEIML and
it includes a SAVSYS, SAVLIB, SAVDLO, and SAV, you shouldn't have any
trouble getting support. But you still need to test and document this
yourself.

Regards,

Scott Ingvaldson
Senior IBM Support Specialist
Fiserv Midwest


-----Original Message-----
From: John McKee [mailto:jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:20 PM
To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Backup question

This just seems like more FUD. Here is what I was told went on:

In working with IBM, we were informed that if we needed to restore the
system that IBM would only help us during a Disaster Recovery if their
backup function was used.

Now, I looked at GO RESTORE option 21 and GO SAVE option 21. I can't
see anything in the GO SAVE option 21 that was not being done already,
in the same sequence. I looked at the help text for both the save and
restore and the text is where I am getting my understanding as to the
commands that are involved.

My concern is that when the HBOC BBACKUP command front end is used, we
have accurate logging information as to when (or if) the backup was
performed. We have already had it happen where, for whatever reason,
the operator has indicated on the log sheet (by a check mark) that some
function, including backup, was performed. But, the truth came out
later that the checked function was not always performed.

Why would IBM (or somebody at IBM) take the position, without looking at
the save itself, that they would not get involved with a DR recovery?
Is there some magic tag that gets written to the save media when GO SAVE
is used that is not written otherwise?

John McKee


Quoting John McKee <jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

Rob, and others, thanks for the input. I still don't know what
triggered the original conversation that I was not included on. Seems

like what we were doing was exactly what was needed. Makes me think
that somebody just volunteered something and magic buttons got pushed.


John McKee
Quoting "Ketzes, Larry" <Larry.Ketzes@xxxxxxx>:

Rob,
I agree with all of your points, but if you go into the 'Go

Save'

menu, and take option 20, it will bring you to the Define save system

and user data defaults screen. You can then change the 'Prompt for

Commands'

parameter from a 'Y' to a 'N', and the backup will simply go from one

save command to the next without prompting.

Larry

Larry Ketzes | Senior iSeries System Administrator | AIG / ALICO -
American Life Insurance Company One ALICO Plaza, 600 N. King Street,
AMIS | Wilmington, DE 19801 | *:
302.594.2146 | 7: 302.830.4524| *: larry.ketzes@xxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:33 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Backup question

John,

As you can see by the confusion of some people as to what is included

in a SAVSYS, and, by the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality
of some people who are still using their pre IFS backup programs, I
can see why IBM encourages a GO SAVE option 21.

Biggest problems I have with GO SAVE 21 are:
- the lack of logging of times on each step (see earlier comments on
V6R1
- STRSBS at the end. Most times I do an IPL afterwards and I sure
don't want to do that. Also, I almost never prompt for commands.
What a time waster if you leave the room between steps.

Rob Berendt
--
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





John McKee <jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
08/26/2008 02:21 PM
Please respond to
Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


To
midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
cc

Subject
RE: Backup question






The Operations Manager had told me, in his words, that we needed to
use Go SAVE to continue to receive support. Exactly what was said,
and why, I was not included on that. My curiosity was definitely
peaked. For one thing, how could IBM determine that our backup was
NOT performed via option 21? I suppose that some object used date
could be checked. But, as far as the content of the backup itself,
it would seem to be the same no matter which method was used. Which
is why I am confused and asking what seemed a no-brainer question.

John McKee

Quoting "Ingvaldson, Scott" <scott.ingvaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>:

I was told that IBM pretty much demanded that Go SAVE option 21 be

used instead.

What? Who told you that? IBM might recommend the option 21 save
but they would never "demand" it. Many, many installations cannot
ever run an option 21 save due to the needs of their business or

application.

It would appear that you have all that you need for a full system
restore per "Are you saving the Right Stuff?"
http://wiki.midrange.com/index.php/Are_You_Saving_The_Right_Stuff%3F

I would expect that you could even run a native Option 21 restore on

a tape created with this backup, assuming "appropriate options" are
truly used. You *might* need to specify Prompt for commands: YES,
it's been a while since I've tested this. As with any and all
backup and restore procedures this should be tested and documented.

If you want to analyze the IBM full system backup do RTVCLSRC
PGM(QMNSAVE)

Regards,

Scott Ingvaldson
Senior IBM Support Specialist
Fiserv Midwest


-----Original Message-----
From: John McKee [mailto:jmmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:01 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Backup question

Our software package is provided by HBOC. They have a number of
commands that are based on IBM commands, with subtle changes. They
differentiate them by prefacing their versions with a 'B'.

Using their commands, a full save of the system was accomplished
with BBACKUP.
This command brings up a number of options. Ultimately, a set of
user defined commands is run. In our case, the commands were:
SAVSYS, SAVLIB, SAVDLO, and SAV, with appropriate options.

I was told that IBM pretty much demanded that Go SAVE option 21 be
used instead.

According to the command help, the only commands that appear
different are that the controlling subsystem is ended and restarted.

That process was performed by operators when BBACKUP command was

used.

Is there something else that is going on that is different from the
scripted backup? One reason to ask is that the BBACKUP command logs

start and stop time of each step - which is sometimes an issue.

Thanks,

John McKee