Understood. I just differentiate between price and cost. Probably
getting to picky on semantics...especially for a Friday.

Microsoft is probably much more competitive than Pepsi! Although now
they have more free help in the world than anybody. I've just been
reading on the whole Pepsi Taste challenge and New Coke
fiasco....interesting reading for people's perceptions and market
dynamics. Again, I'm probably putting more analysis into than I should.


This is what happens when the wife and daughter go to Birmingham AL for
a soccer tourney and leave me home with the dogs......I just have to
find someone else to argue....excuse me, disagree....excuse me, discuss
with....

Have a good weekend!

Michael Crump

Manager, Computing Services
Saint-Gobain Containers, Inc.
1509 S. Macedonia Ave.
Muncie, IN 47302
765.741.7696
765.741.7012 f

This email and its attachments may be confidential and are intended
solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views
or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily represent those of Saint-Gobain. <redaction>. If you are
not the intended recipient of this email and its attachments, you must
take no action based upon them, nor must you copy or show them to
anyone. Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this
email in error.

When you're short of everything but the enemy, you're in combat.

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Booth Martin
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:58 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Any comments on Fontecchio's blog?

I do not mean Point four in a disparaging manner, Mike. However through

the years I have seen that it just happens to often to still be
coincidence that the winning choice turns out to be "cheapest", but only

*after* enough rationalization has been done.

As to number six... Microsoft isn't at least as aggressive a competitor

as Pepsi???



Crump, Mike wrote:
"Forth - Price is never the issue, *especially* when the decision
makers
are spending OPM (Other People's Money)."

I'd suggest that this can be a big issue. There are people and
companies that live by cost of acquisition. You don't have the
cheapest
system you lose. I spend others peoples money and price is always the
issue. However, I would not even suggest that price is the only
issue.

"Six - Coca-Cola blundered, and for a while they pursued the "damn
the
torpedoes, full speed ahead" approach to selling the newly formulated
Coke."

I think that while there may be some similarities to New Coke there
are
just as many differences. Coca-Cola blundered, but this was the
direct
result of competitor activities and very detail testing of their own.
I
don't think I would call it a damn the torpedoes attitude.

Not trying to be argumentative, IMHO some of the points may not be
accurate....but thought provoking none the less.



Michael Crump

Manager, Computing Services
Saint-Gobain Containers, Inc.
1509 S. Macedonia Ave.
Muncie, IN 47302
765.741.7696
765.741.7012 f

This email and its attachments may be confidential and are intended
solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any
views
or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily represent those of Saint-Gobain. <redaction>. If you are
not the intended recipient of this email and its attachments, you must
take no action based upon them, nor must you copy or show them to
anyone. Please contact the sender if you believe you have received
this
email in error.

The easy way is always mined.

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Booth Martin
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:32 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Any comments on Fontecchio's blog?

?? oh?

First - I am, and will remain, an IBM bigot. I make no apologies for
that.
Second - Moore's Law is a factor. A 50% reduction in hardware cost
every 18 months since the 1960s (or before) is *going* to have an
impact!
Third - The IBM Midrange machine is a niche product. That is not
going

to change.
Forth - Price is never the issue, *especially* when the decision
makers

are spending OPM (Other People's Money).
Fifth - As a niche product, the IBM Midrange machine is, or should
be,
outside the IBM mainline just as Saturn and Corvette are not in the
traditional General Motors Chevy-Buick-Pontiac-Oldsmobile-Cadillac
business model.
Six - Coca-Cola blundered, and for a while they pursued the "damn
the

torpedoes, full speed ahead" approach to selling the newly formulated
Coke. That strategy didn't work for them, and it won't work for
Trevor
or IBM.

Where is the flawed or circular logic, Trevor?


(Just to be really clear on this, I happen to think highly of Trevor
Perry. He does sessions for the Dallas User Group and he does a first

rate job! Plus, I believe he has a first rate mind and is a straight
thinker. Unfortunately, it appears to me that he's gotten into the
kool-aid. :) )




Trevor Perry wrote:

Steve,

Programmers asking questions on Midrange-L tend to be the ones
already

on

Midrange-L - they just ask more questions, or engage in ridiculous

name

debates. Reaching new i5/OS resources on midrange-L does not

correspond to a

growth in business. Moot point 1.

We sell lots of small 515 servers where there is no IT staff at all.

No net

new i5/OS employment does not equate to a growth in business. Moot

point 2.

User group attendance has reduced across the entire IT industry. How

do you

equate that to any growth in business? Moot point 3.

Your points have no logic to them. Choose a better equation, or go

talk with

Booth - he understands circular and flawed logic.

Trevor


On 3/7/08 2:19 PM, "Steve Richter" <stephenrichter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Trevor Perry <trevor@xxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:



Booth,

Where are you being told that IBM is not selling anything?

Read some of Mark Shearer's words here:
http://blogs.systeminetwork.com/isnblogs/maxedout/

"In my first two and half years in System i, I got an awful lot of
feedback
from clients that they wanted to pay for what they use, that they

wanted

us
to improve the price-to-value ratio . . . and we relaunched our

entire

entry-level product line back in April -- that ultimately drove
more

than

25
percent volume growth last year in System i."


would it follow that there has been a 25% increase in programmers

asking

questions on midrange-l? a 25% increase in system i5 employment

across the

board, an equivalent increase in attendance at user's groups and

COMMON

conferences?

-Steve








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