RE: Help me Justify iSeries -- MIDRANGE-L

You do need to calculate your costs a little differently IMO. 

Dell Servers at $4500 each most likely includes windows; but what other
software - Did you buy a back up tool (free on iSeries); a relational
database - SQL server (free on iSeries); anti virus (most shops don't
use one on iSeries); software firewall (very powerful one free on
iseries); etc. 

What about support? Did you purchase 4 hour response from Dell?

Most people only compare the hardware costs but the software costs
really stack up. 

Still the iSeries is most likely more expensive in terms of direct costs
(unless you plan to run Oracle); but totaling up every item you buy can
really narrow the field.


-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
ron_adams@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:59 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Help me Justify iSeries

Thanks everybody for some great comments. Unfortunately, I haven't seen
anything really that I haven't already said to my boss.

I've been on the midrange platform since '89 and happen to think it's
solid and would not even dream of running a business class app on
Wintel. 
But, the impression here by upper management is that this platform is
costly in hardware, software and maintenance. And for the most part
their right. I know that it's a solid and secure platform and
maintaining it is a piece of cake. But, I just can't convince management
that the money spent is worth it.

For the record we're a "smallish" shop. We have 5 Wintel (Dell) servers
at HQ running Win2K and 2003. We run Lotus Notes here and at each of our
remote sites on Wintel (Dell) servers that also serve as file servers
for each of those locations. Total of 11 Wintel servers which were
probably around $4500 each ($49500). The staff is comprised of myself,
and another guy. I handle midrange ERP systems which includes the i5 and
an older HP3000. The other guy handles the Wintel servers and network/pc
support (he stays very busy), but I back him up sometimes as does my
boss. We've loaded SQL server on a couple of the Wintel machines as well
as ESSbase. 
If you look at the figures from a 3-year standpoint, the Wintel servers,
which have been solid for the most part with very minimal down-time over
the last year, the Wintel server(s) win. 

I know that if we switch to a Wintel platform for our business ERP, the
costs are going to go up, as we'll need some more servers with more
disk, CPU and memory but still it won't equal the cost of the iSeries
and all of its apps and hardware, plus maintenance.

Sorry guys, but from a cost (only) standpoint the iSeries just can't
compete, and that's where my boss and upper management are.

Ron Adams





"Ingvaldson, Scott" <SIngvaldson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by:
midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
05/27/2005 08:24 AM
Please respond to Midrange Systems Technical Discussion

 
        To:     <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: Help me Justify iSeries


It shouldn't be that hard (for an iSeries professional) to justify an
iSeries.  When was the last time your iSeries went down? 

We currently have a sign posted on the Data Center door that reads
"Number of days since last unscheduled IPL - 525, Previous Record 307"
This sign refers to our 390 Mainframe. 

Our last Intel server outage was last night, this time we actually had 6
hours of advance notice, the notice read:
Between 10:00 p.m. and Midnight tonight, the Database Administration
department will be rebooting a server to resolve a high CPU usage issue.
>From 10:00 p.m. until Midnight tonight, the following
systems/applications will be unavailable:

KPoint
Sales Logix
SurfControl
LegalFiles
EPS
Prism
Remedy
IntraDoc
Primavera

I have had to send out exactly one of these notices, (in five years) due
to one user who was unable to receive a request through MQ Series (on a
Saturday!)  This scheduled (MQ Series only) outage had been communicated
to the user's manager who did not forward it to his group.

Certainly it is expensive to have a hot D/R system sitting idle, but
seriously, does your company have 100 Windows boxen sitting idly by
waiting for your disaster?  The reality is that if 24x7 uptime is your
goal I can't imagine why a Windows solution would even be on the table.

Then go check out (and send your boss) the Laughing Boardroom i5
commercials at TUG:
http://www.tug.ca/Sing-i5-iSeriesChoir.html

Seriously, the best argument that I've heard against the iSeries is that
it takes so few (often only one) people to administer it that it might
be difficult to replace them if the iSeries admin were to get hit by a
bus.

Regards,
 
Scott Ingvaldson
iSeries System Administrator
GuideOne Insurance Group
--
Remember, only you can prevent forest fires...


-----Original Message-----
date: Thu, 26 May 2005 21:23:15 -0500
from: ron_adams@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
subject: Help me Justify iSeries

My boss has the impression that running on the iSeries/AS400 is more 
costly than a Wintel platform with something like Oracle or SQL Server.

I'm a staunch supporter of the iSeries, however, my boss who came from a

Microsoft environment seems to think its so much more expensive to stay
on 
the iSeries due to hardware and software costs. How can I convince him 
that this where our business needs to be? Or, has the time come to give
up 
the fight?

BTW: the scale-tipping factor was the high cost of a backup machine for 
D-R purposes. We're looking at about $20K to buy a new low-end 520 with 
V5R3 and enough DASD to put in another location as a hot-site. The 
production machine is an Enterprise Class 520 that we purchased in Sept
of 
last year. The total cost including all of our software licenses was 
around $200K.  I hate to say it, but I think he may be right. I agree
that 
iSeries is a stable and secure platfor that is highly capable of running

our business, but unfortunately, they're only looking at the bottom
line.


Thanks,

Ron Adams