Re: Cases in AS400

I've used several generators, Synon2E and Websmart (generates RPGLE (cgi),
html).
In both cases I only saw the code if in debug. I am a strong proponent of
generated code if it is reasonably efficient, and always reliable. Synon was
used at a large retailer, and I can say it saved them millions in
development cost over a 10 year period. Their biggest mistake is trying to
make the tool do some things it was not designed to do. It took a while to
learn how to write Synon code that generated efficient applications.
Websmart generates RPGLE that is far more sophisticated than I could write
myself. I have no complaints of it's generated code, and the developer
language is fairly easy to learn. When the tool doesn't have an op code or
feature I need, I can just call my own rpgle (like editing date fields from
html text fields). A key feature is that I can "extend" their tool by adding
my own routines to be used in their generated code.
If you have not looked at such a tool in last 2-3 years, look again. Synon2e
has been around forever, and we all thought the first 8-10 years were pretty
ugly. WebSmart is much more recent, and today's version is far better than
it's beginnings.
jim franz

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Kaynor@xxxxxxx>
To: <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: Cases in AS400


>
> With apologies for jumping in late... I'd just like to take umbrage with
the
> disparaging statements about generated code.
>
> I used Synon/2e (now Advantage:2e) for eight years before I learned  RPG.
> That was reality for me.  I still use it without viewing the  generated
code,
> and in fact interact with vendor code generated in  COBOL (which I also
don't
> look at).  The "code" I care  about is in the Action Diagram.  The biggest
> benefit of a  CASE tool is the ability to work at a higher level of
abstraction
> than the 3GL  provides.
>
> Just as I don't look at the machine code generated by the compiler, I
should
> not look at the HLL code generated by the CASE tool.  When I do, it  is
> because of my ignorance of the CASE tool or a bug in its generater, and
neither
> should be tolerated.
>
> The programmers whom I see looking at generated code are usually looking
for
> warm-fuzzies about what they just created, or don't understand how the
CASE
> tool works, and are using the generated code to understand what it  does.
> Neither is an efficient use of their time.   They  should learn how to
program
> IN THE TOOL, not use it to "manipulate code."
>
> I have lots of respect for your posts, Rob, and David, and I missed
Peter's
> original post, so this may not be germane to his original  point.   But, I
> contend that all of you miss the point  of using a CASE tool when you
disparage
> its generated  code.
>
> --Chapin Kaynor
>   Vermont
>
>
>
> date:  Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:54:19 -0500
> from: rob@xxxxxxxxx
> subject: Re: Cases  in AS400
>
> I agree David.  I used to use AS/SET and that code was,  and still is,
> ugly.  In fact they still convert 10 character field  names down to 6
> characters.
>
> Sometimes I wonder if they do this  stuff just to discourage you from
> looking at the generated code, stay the  he!! out, and only use the case
> tool to manipulate code.
>
> Rob  Berendt
> -- 
> Group Dekko Services, LLC
> Dept 01.073
> PO Box  2000
> Dock 108
> 6928N 400E
> Kendallville, IN  46755
> http://www.dekko.com
>
>
>
>
>
> David Gibbs  <david@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by:  midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> 04/22/2005 01:47 PM
> Please respond  to
> Midrange Systems Technical Discussion  <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> To
> midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re:  Cases in AS400
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Peter Vidal wrote:
> > SYNON?  Ugly code....
>
> I think all case tools generate ugly code ... but the  theory is, you use
> the case tool to manage generate the code, so who cares  how ugly it is.
>
> That is, of course, a theory only.
>
> Reality,  obviously, is another story.
>
> david
>
> -- 
> David  Gibbs
> david@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
> -- 
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