RE: LINUX Workstations -- MIDRANGE-L

Joe,

I'll take a stab at a couple, even though I do not think I am much farther
down the Linux path than you.

1)  Creating CD's easy.  On the one hand, your idea doesn't sound too bad,
on the other I already think this part is pretty easy.  All the Linux
distros come in .iso's which are just a CD image.  All CD making software
can make a CD from that.  I would imagine some of the higher-end products
like EZ CD Creator probably even have a file association.  Given that you
can use an .iso on any system that can burn a CD to make a CD, I am not
sure why you would want to make it Windows-specific by wrapping it as an
EXE?

By the way, not only can you get .iso's to make your install CD's.  If you
go to Knoppix, you can even get an .iso that is just a bootable version of
Linux on a CD.

2)  Which distro should I use?  Once they are installed, they are all very
similar.  If you are looking for a true Windows-replacement, I would look
at Xandros, Lycoris and Lindows.  These three all go to great efforts to
emulate the Windows look and feel and to have good support for file
compatibility and networking.

If you are looking to really dive into Linux, then Red Hat and Suse are the
best two options, especially if you are looking for the type of support you
would want in a business environment.

Red Hat tends to put more effort into supporting GNOME for the desktop,
where as Suse puts more effort into KDE.  But both distros do support both
desktops.  Typically, users that decide they want to use KDE, but want the
"safety" of Red Hat go with Mandrake.  Mandrake is based on Red Hat, but
their original specialty was keeping it current with KDE releases.  They
also put a lot of effort into the installer.

I have installed 5 of the 6 distros I mentioned, with the exception being
Lindows.  Frankly, all of them are as easy to install as Windows.  They do
vary a little after the install, especially the ones that do not setup
Windows networking as part of the install.

The final distro is Debian.  It is generally considered harder to install,
but the most stable in that they are conservative about adding the latest
versions of packages.  Debian probably has the best post-installation
management when it comes to installing other packages.  Generally, Debian
is the choice for people that are really "into" the whole Open Source
mantra, since it is a true open project with no corporation behind it.  I
believe Lycoris, Xandros and Lindows are all based on Debian, just as
Mandrake is based on Red Hat.

Finally, just remembered your "packaged install" question.  Lindows,
Xandros and Lycoris are all meant for end user desktops so they give almost
no choices and install a complete working system in about 15 minutes - for
real.

Red Hat and Suse have a bunch of typical choices, like "Server - with
different types (mail, web etc.)".  "Development Workstation", "Office
Workstation", "Game System" etc.  I think Mandrake does the same, although
I do not remember if it had a pure server option, since they are also
geared for the desktop.

Phew, that is a lot of gibberish.  Hopefully something in it helps you.  I
agree, though, that this all has a long way to go to replace Windows.  In
my opinion, though, the install is actually the easy part.  It is the
post-install that needs the most work.

Mark



      To:   "'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'"
<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
      cc:
      bcc:
      Subject:    RE: LINUX Workstations
"Joe Pluta" <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces+markp=softlanding.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
10/03/2003 06:08 PM
Please respond to Midrange Systems Technical Discussion           <font
size=-1></font>





















By the way, folks, in sort of a corollary to the statement below, if you
reread the thread, you'll see that I got at least four or five
completely different suggestions involving three or four different Linux
variants, with answers ranging from FTP installs to .iso images.

The distributions are incompatible from a software standpoint.  Device
drivers, while more plentiful than in the early days, are still
occasionally hit or miss, especially for the oldest or newest hardware.

This is NOT software 101 stuff here, folks.  And while it may be fine to
play with this kind of thing in my own home in my copious free time, I
can't in good faith tell my clients to switch to it.  Even with its
security chasms, its bloated, buggy software and its Draconian licensing
policies, Windows still is an environment less likely to frustrate and
frighten my client base.

That's sad, but true.  And you know, it would probably only take a few
things to make that go away:

1. Easy CD install.  Someone should create a dedicated Linux-burning
installer.  Download it, stick a CD in your CD burner (most people have
them these days) and run the package.  All it does is burn CDs and ask
for new ones.  Especially if it worked on DVDs; the whole thing would
probably fit on a good sized DVD-ROM.

2. A couple of pre-formatted Linux configurations.  Say a terminal
server and terminal, a standalone graphical development workstation, an
email server.  Basically punch in your IP address (or the IP address of
your DHCP server) and go.  I know it can be done - NetMAX does it, calls
them "network appliances" and sells a slew of them.

3. Some sort of wizard to help you select the right Linux variant.
RedHat?  Mandrake?  SuSE?  Debian?  Which is right?  Which is wrong?
When are ALL of them wrong and I should instead choose FreeBSD?

Anyway, those of you who are so adamant about the joys of the Open
Source movement, take a little time to do the grunt work, the finishing
touches that will make your system acceptable to the masses.
Personally, I think a lot of Linux geeks LIKE the aura of
impenetrability, it makes them powerful.  If Linux was as easy as
Windows, they might lose some mystique.

If I'm wrong, prove me wrong.  Create a web site that tells me which
Linux I should download, lets me download a setup file to my Windows
machine which in turn burns a CD.  If you want to be nutty about it,
make it a Java application and let me run it anywhere I have a JVM and a
CD burner.  Let me boot my hardware off that CD and answer a couple of
basic questions (admin user ID and password, IP or DHCP address) and
install the thing.  When done, I want the machine to boot up to a
graphical interface that asks me the user ID and password and I can get
started.

Do that, and we might be talking.

Joe

> From: Joe Pluta
>
> But that means that if I want to teach someone to use
> Linuz, then EVERYTHING I have to do to get Linux going, I am going to
> have to write down in excruciating detail for my readers.  So the more
> steps, the more uncertainty, the more confusion, the more chances for
my
> readers to get frustrated and give up.
>
> On the other hand, they can get a Dell, dude, download Eclipse, hit
> install, and we're writing business code.

_______________________________________________
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list
To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.