Re: Web apps on the AS/400

Joe - from your quick bio, your obviously way ahead of many of us, and
have had the opportunity to be on the cutting edge. Java has also obviously
matured. It's good that we have someone like you to lead the charge.
However, many shops, restricted by management, budgets, other projects,
etc will, through no fault of their own, take a while getting there.
I think the qty of S36 & RPGIV questions on this list should give you a
clue.
The one exception I will make to your previous statement, is that CGI is
not an architecturally sound approach.CGI has been THE standard for dynamic
web serving for many years. It is still the standard for much of the web.
It is the old, tried & true, sound method. It is not an RPG invention, or
even an IBM invention. It's been on the 400 for years. Java will
overtake CGI some day. When ILE came along, many saw the clear
advantages, but it didn't render RPGIII as unfit for use.
Keep leading the charge, and build us some tools that make it easier to
learn.
jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Pluta" <joepluta@PlutaBrothers.com>
To: <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 10:05 PM
Subject: RE: Web apps on the AS/400


> John, I've spent a lot of time on this particular question.  In general, I
> try to be fair and tell people that certain solutions are better for
certain
> situations, and each one has its own place.  For example, when I give my
> presentations at COMMON, I stress the fact that there are occasions where
> screen scrapers are the right solution.
>
> But I'll be honest here.  I'm tired of being PC (Programmatically
Correct).
> I haven't spent nearly 25 years developing code to sit back now and
waffle,
> especially when the answers are clear cut.  So here it is:
>
> 1. The AS/400 is the best midrange machine on the planet.  Period.
> 2. RPG and DB2/400 beat any other combination for business rules
> development.
> 3. OO is the best technology to develop tag-based UI.
> 4. Java is the best commercially available OO language.
> 5. JavaServer Pages are the best browser-based development solution.
>
> These are my opinions, certainly, but I have coded millions of lines of
code
> over the years.  I have written operating systems, development tools,
> shrinkwrapped packages and custom applications.  I've used ten different
> hardware platforms, eight different operating systems (that's NOT counting
> variants) and over a dozen languages, three of which I wrote myself.
>
> Tell me how procedural code is better than OO for designing widgets.  And
> then have the code to back it up.  Show me another commercially viable OO
> language that runs on as many platforms as Java.  Explain to me how CGI is
a
> better UI model than JSP.  It can't be done.  My list, while surely based
on
> opinion, is awfully hard to contest in fact.
>
> Now, I don't dispute the fact that there are times when the best is the
> enemy of the good.  Like I said, screen scrapers have their place: namely,
> when you've lost the source to an application but need to get it on the
web.
> Similarly, CGI-RPG has a place: in shops that refuse to learn Java, or are
> running their machine at 99+% CPU already.  But like screen scraping,
> CGI-RPG is a dead-end technique that adds nothing to your technological
> toolbox - as they used to say at Digital, it's "a bag on the side of the
> box".  And I'm tired of seeing it promoted as anything but a bandaid and a
> shortcut.
>
> Sure, use CGI-RPG to learn the browser.  Use screen scrapers for tactical
> solutions.  Heck, get FrontPage and put up a website.  It doesn't hurt.
But
> don't expect me to sit here and say with a straight face that CGI-RPG or
> screen scrapers are an architecturally sound approach for any sort of
> strategic development.  In my oh so obviously not very darned humble
> opinion, they simply aren't.
>
> <grumble>
>
> And ONE of these days I'll stop beating around the bush and say what I
> mean... <grin>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
> > [mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of jpcarr@TREDEGAR.COM
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:04 PM
> > To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> > Subject: RE: Web apps on the AS/400
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe Pluta said
> > >I won't write CGI-RPG, Brad.  It's a strategically unsound
architecture,
> > in my opinion, and I choose not to pursue >it.  There's nothing
> > CGI-RPG can
> > provide that I can't get through servlets or JavaServer Pages.
> > >My opinion stands.
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > Net.Data,   RPG-CGI,   Java   each have their strengths and weaknesses
> > depending on the Application needed,  The shop it will run in,  and the
> > current skill set of the staff that will develop and maintain the code.
> >
> > No right answer,  No one solution that fits all.
> >
> > Servlets, and JSP's  in a shop that has pressing deadlines and let's say
> > "not state of the art" skill sets  may not be a good  "Tactical"
solution
> > if all they want is some existing reports etc in the browser.
> >
> > Stategically ?  Net.Data and CGI is not the end all and be all.
however
> > for a shop that just within the last 6months learned RPGIV and can read
a
> > data base file and format the output like is shown on Easy400.com or in
> > Brad's eRPG book,  CGI may  be a good way to get ... lets say
> > "Comfortable"
> > with the Browser,  HTTP server,  etc.
> >
> > Set and Setting(which shop, which skillset, which budget, what
trainging,
> > etc)  have a big effect when considering a "Tactical" solution to help
you
> > on your way to learn new stuff.
> >
> > End-all-be-all ?   Java seems this season's pick for that.   ( there
have
> > been many seasons though).
> > Should people learn it?  You Bet !   Can they be putting up some simple
> > stuff in the mean time  with Net.data or RPG-CGI and get a level
> > of comfort
> > with the browser interface ?   You Bet !
> >
> > Just my opinion
> >
> > John Carr
> >
>
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