Re: Re[4]: The relevance of COMMON (was Penton to buy Duke -

[booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

I've found a couple of issues keep coming up in discussions about 
training.  Too many times a few people view these sessions as some sort of 
goof-off award and seem determined to socialize and network and enhance 
their own values but will not help the management see the benefits gained 
from the budget money spent.

It is my opinion that most management will respond to positive signs from 
employees regarding training.   Local User Groups are a good way to begin 
showing management why it pays to send you to a session, and there are 
regional shows all over the country that last a day or two days and are 
useful and pay dividends.   But if you think it is goof-off time, or time 
to find out what you should really be paid, or to start a job search then 
I guess it makes sense for a manager to say No doesn't it?

No one here would take advantage like that of course, but too many people 
do, and we all know people like that.  None the less, we can show managers 
that training pays.


_______________________
Booth Martin
Booth@MartinVT.com
http://www.MartinVT.com
_______________________




eric.delong@pmsi-services.com
Sent by: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
09/07/2000 05:40 AM
Please respond to MIDRANGE-L

 
        To:     <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re[4]: The relevance of COMMON (was Penton to buy Duke -


     I'm not really saying I'm frustrated with COMMON, exactly. Common 
     *could* be a bit more affordable, but that's not the point. It's 
     mostly frustration at TPTB who dangle the "training budget" in 
     front of my nose as an incentive, only to use that money in other 
     ways. In 15 years in midrange, I've had EXACTLY 1 day (6-7 hours) 
     of training (in house no less) for a product I was already familiar 
     with (I did learn some things, though). Everything else I've ever 
     learned has been via manuals, books, Synon generated code (YUK! 
     That's where I first learned subfiles.... S36 to AS400 shop, no one 
     else had any idea how to do them), trial and error, and most 
     recently this list and online resources. 
 
     Don't misunderstand, I feel that the grunt work has paid off over 
     the years. I learn best from my own mistakes, and I've made plenty 
     over the years, but I can't help feeling that much of the grief and 
     confusion could have been reduced or avoided completely with a bit 
     of training and source materials. 
 
     Recap: Training *should* be a benefit, to myself and my employer. 
     It *should not* be the golden carrot that's continually just out of 
     reach. That's the frustration.
 
     eric.delong@pmsi-services.com


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: The relevance of COMMON (was Penton to buy Duke -
Author:  <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com> at INET_WACO
Date:    9/6/00 4:20 PM


 
 
How in the world can you be frustrated with COMMON if you've never 
been????!!!????  That means you've never invested a dime's worth of money 
nor a 
dime's worth of time to see what you could get out of it.  As Bruce 
Collins 
stated in another message, you get out of it what you put into it. 
Personally, 
I think you should be screaming, jumping up and down and hollering(that's 
an 
Ozark mountain phrase), if your "decision makers" won't send you for 
training. 
I've never understood how we are supposed to advance our abilities and 
skills 
without outside training.  People who make these decisions should have 
mean, 
nasty, ugly things done to them.  The benefits from COMMON are far too 
numerous 
to mention here and they are multiplied when you volunteer and really get 
to 
know the movers and shakers in our industry.  They are some of the most 
friendly, helpful people I've ever met.
 
Paul Fenstermacher
Bass Pro Shops
paulf@basspro.com
 
 
 
 


+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to 
MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: 
david@midrange.com
+---




+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---