RE: Re[2]: Programming tools (was DDS Support) -- MIDRANGE-L

I am obviously missing something on this point but why are we comparing 
tools on the PC with tools on the 400?  If the two platforms were the same 
then EVERYONE would buy a PC to run their mission critical business systems 
on.  And the number of business failures would be proportional to the 
number of times the PC's crashed!!

Sure you can download PC tools that are similar to AS/400 tools that are 
for sale but then a 6th hand rusty Volkswagen Beetle for 50 bucks is the 
same as a Ferrari, except for some of the extra features (such as speed, 
reliability, performance, etc).

I can't think of many tools that can be compared on a functionality basis 
and of course I agree with an earlier point that the closed architecture is 
quite often the cause of extra development costs which have to be passed 
on.  But only one company has kept the architecture closed !!

Jamie Coles



-----Original Message-----
From:   Karen Summers [SMTP:ksummers@sasainc.com]
Sent:   Wednesday, 05 July, 2000 07:05
To:     MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
Subject:        RE: Re[2]: Programming tools (was DDS Support)

I just had to pick up this one...
It's hard to justify a tool on the 400 that is less effective and costs 
more
than a similar tool in the PC world.  And while IBM has some great discount
programs, other major vendors don't seem to subscribe to this.  I can't ask
a client to install a tool that I have no experience with and I can't 
afford
to drop 5k every time I want to try something.
Screen scrapers, change management, spool file management, test suites.  I
can probably download something for free in each of these categories that
will run on a PC.  AND where is the online documentation so I can at least
determine if the package is worth trying.  AND, no, I don't want the vendor
to come out and demonstrate it.  Once they have sent you something they
never leave you alone!  I just want to try out tools, sitting in my
comfortable chair, at 2 in the morning before I have to make a
recommendation.  My clients are moving fast and we don't have time to sit
around and wait for the 400 vendors.  It's so frustrating.  It's no wonder
everyone talks about "preaching to the choir".  We know the platform rules
in so many areas, but tools is definitely not one of them.

Karen Summers
My opinion is my own and may be the opinion of my company if I say so.



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
[mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of Steven Easton
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 8:52 PM
To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
Subject: Re[2]: Programming tools (was DDS Support)


There are a lot of good tools out there.  Most AS400 programmers refuse to
use
them.  Compound that with, many companies who refuse to pay for tools (they
want
solutions).

Steven Easton
www.5-10.com
seaston@ionet.net

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: Re: Programming tools (was DDS Support)
Author: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
Date:  7/3/00 2:39 PM

From: Stone, Brad V (TC) <bvstone@taylorcorp.com>
 > But as long as we're willing to pay 40k for a tool that puts a spooled
file
 > into PDF format, it isn't going to get any better.  We need more folks
 > willing to put in the time to write competitive tools for low $$.
 >
 > Removing tierred pricing is the first step.  Biggest scam since 90 
minute
 > martinizing.

another problem is the closed architecture of the AS/400 that makes it
hard for tool-makers to make efficient system-type tools such as compilers,
file-converters, and the like.



+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to 
MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
david@midrange.com
+---

+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to 
MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
david@midrange.com
+---

+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to 
MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: 
david@midrange.com
+---

+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---