Re: Programming tools (was DDS Support)

["alan shore" <SHOREA@xxxxxxxx>]

These points can be made not only for the AS/400 but for ANY mainframe, ANY 
manufacture. People who have been primarily introduced to the PC, sometimes 
don't realize how "easy" or accessible these machines really are (relatively 
speaking).

>>> <booth@martinvt.com> 07/03 1:40 PM >>>
This may seem petty but so what, never stopped me before. 

Your comparisons to tools for other platforms doesn't translate well to 
the AS/440 for some reason.   PC tools are usually under $100, automatic 
to install, intuitive to set up, and productive to the user in 15 minutes 
or less. 

On the other hand, AS/400 tools require management review and approval, 
budget line items, training sessions, often there are needed PTFs, and a 
library has to be placed on the AS/400 which may compromise security. 
Code/400 is a bear to install and use.  Hawkeye (a great tool imho) is 
$2500 and requires the company to send a high-skill employee to school for 
a week.

There is just no comparison between the PC work world and the AS/400 work 
world.  I sure wish there was.
_______________________
Booth Martin
Booth@MartinVT.com 
http://www.MartinVT.com 
_______________________




Buck Calabro <buck.calabro@aptissoftware.com>
Sent by: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com 
07/03/2000 10:01 AM
Please respond to MIDRANGE-L

 
        To:     MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com 
        cc: 
        Subject:        Programming tools (was DDS Support)

Mark Lazarus wrote using HTML:

-snip about using a tool to create code/data definitions-

>So you're putting the burden on the tool writers?? 
>I don't that's fair either, but as I mentioned above, 
>most shops don't seem have these tools anyway.

Mark -your remark is exactly right and proper in the context of this
discussion, and I quite agree with you - most midrange shops own no
programming tools.  There is a bizarre belief among the majority of 
midrange
programmers that they require no tools to perform their job.  None.  No PC
based editor, no change management, no data dictionary, no cross
reference/documentation, no embedded SQL, no code generator, no "off the
shelf" service programs (like OCX's or DLL's available for the PC 
platform.)
This is about the only box where a programmer can be taken seriously when
she tells her boss that "we don't need a (fill in the tool) - that's just
one more thing to have to learn."  On any other box, a programmer who is
unwilling to learn will not be employed long and rightfully so.

Because of this, there is little or no market for programmer tools on the
AS/400.  This reduces our ability to write robust modern complex code
because we CAN'T GET programmer tools!  The definition of "tool" is
"something that allows you to do more work per unit time (code generator),
or to do better work per unit time (change management) or to allow the 
user
to work longer with less fatigue (PC based editor)."  Why are any of these
things undesirable in the AS/400 world, but de rigeur elsewhere?

No, most AS/400 shops don't seem to have these tools, and that's not a 
good
thing.

Buck Calabro
Aptis; Albany, NY
"We are what we repeatedly do.
 Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle


Billing Concepts Corp., a NASDAQ Listed Company, Symbol: BILL
+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to 
MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: 
david@midrange.com 
+---




+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com 
+---

+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---