Re: Careersn (was Certification)

Scott,

In a message dated 98-04-06 12:07:04 EDT, you write:

<<snip>>
> Then, for the sake of my own curiosity, I have an "ethics" question:
>  how does one with a comparatively satisfactory job keep one's "ear to
>  the ground" so to speak, looking for that elusive Nirvana-like job
>  without making someone like you "work their tail off" only to get a wet
>  noodle response?  Let me illustrate (preface to keep post somewhat
>  w/in list guidelines: I AM NOT TROLLING FOR A JOB HERE!  I'm merely
>  using a personal example to illustrate why I ask a specific question):  

Tell the truth (works in most of life's interactions, unless your wife asks
"Do these pants make me look fat?" :)).  State up front that you're happy
where you are, but would like to "test the waters".  If you're "just looking",
then your agent (or friend, or brother-in-law, or sister) won't "call in any
markers" or ask a CIO to delay her trip to Brussels for a day because she
"_REALLY_ needs to talk to this person _TODAY_".

>  My wife is German, her entire family lives over there.  Naturally,
>  we'd like to get to see them occasionally, but finances preclude
>  doing so more than every 3-4 years.  Oh well, that's life.  But, that
>  means a very appealing aspect of any employment opportunity for me
>  personally would be the requirement for occasional business trips to
>  Europe in general, Germany in particular (rack up frequent flyer
>  miles, write off family vacations, etc.)  Therefore, when the bi-weekly
>  headhunter call comes to my desk, I have a pat response: "I am not
>  looking to move, I'm pretty happy where I am.  However, these
>  specific things would appeal to me: <list off 4-5 very specific things,
>  including international travel but pointedly not including salary>. 
>  Conclusion: if you've got a position w/3-4 of these, let's talk." 
>  Inevitably, I get calls back w/positions essentially equivalent to what
>  I'm doing now, just more (sometimes lots more) money, at which point
>  they're turned down.

Yes, and I'd be willing to estimate that 80% or more of the headhunters out
there will do this.  Worse, they'll often send you on an interview for which
you are completely unqualified and tell the client that you have skills for
which you never even mentioned any experience.  With apologies to Dave and
those (few) others of you out there that _ARE_ good and don't lie to either
client or prospective employees, _MOST_ headhunters and brokers are soooooo
crooked...(How crooked _are_ they?)...so crooked that, when they die, they
don't bury them -- they just screw them in the ground (kinda' like attorneys
and IR's;-)).

Turn 'em down, and don't feel bad about it.  Just as long as you told them you
were "just looking", and what your requirements were.  You'll eventually find
a good one, but I'll almost guarantee that it _won't_ be one that called _YOU_
first...

>  Summary: I'm sure there are recruiters out there who feel much the
>  same way about me that Dean does towards his contractor, e.g. "What
>  the heck does this guy want - I'm offering X, Y, and Z!"  I'm always
>  interested in something better, but I'm happy enough that it's got to be
>  really really better.  Am I taking unfair advantage if I describe my
>  ideal job, then turn Joe recruiter down when he comes w/something
>  that just doesn't, in MY book, measure up to what I want, even if, in
>  HIS book, it does?  Personally, I don't think so - I thought that's what
>  recruiters did, root about for stuff I can't/won't find using sources
>  to which they (presumably) have access but I do not...but what sayeth
>  the list?

Not at all.  If you didn't get what you ordered at a restaurant, would you
just eat it and say "it was close"?  No.  Nor should you put up with that kind
of treatment from a job search agency.  You haven't said a single thing here
that I disagree with.  The thing is, I don't normally _DO_ placements.  If
someone that _I_ know from past personal experience as being of a calibre I
respect (and it's a _VERY_ short list) happens to come available at the same
time one of my clients is looking for their skill-set, I'll subcontract them.
If a friend asks me to find them someone, I'll try -- but let them know up
front that X, Y, and Z will be required.  If the latter still want me to look
after their jaw bounces off of their chest, I will -- I just can't find anyone
to take "the big package" if any travel at all is involved.  All travel is too
much, even if it's half or less than they are currently doing -- errrrrrr!

But more often these days, I get this "I _REALLY_ want to work for a such-and-
such type company under these conditions, and I know you work in that area,
can you find me anything?" from casual acquaintances.  I'll offer to get them
a name, but let them know up front that winning the job is _their_
responsibility and that I cannot really give them any sort of recommendation
(having not worked with them).  I then take time out of both mine and the
manager's day to call and ask if it's OK for this person to give them a call.
If so, I then take _MORE_ time out tracking down the requestor to let them
know who to talk to and when.  Then, I run into the manager a month later and
he/she says "you know, that person never called" or even the dreaded "that
person set up an interview and then never showed up".  Meanwhile, the person
that "_REALLY_" wanted this job is now avoiding me like the plague.

I'm just not going to do it any more.  It's more aggravation than I need, and
makes me look bad to the people I try to hook these people up with.  I receive
no fee from perm placements, it's a personal favor.  I just wanted to let
those that are doing it take a look at themselves, and realize what it's
costing those of whom they request "favors".  You make yourself "the employee
that cried wolf", and have lost some valuable resources for when that wolf
_really_ knocks at your door...

Regards!

Dean Asmussen
Enterprise Systems Consulting, Inc.
Fuquay-Varina, NC  USA
E-Mail:  DAsmussen@aol.com

"A man's gotta know his limitations." -- Clint Eastwood
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