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David,

An MSDN subscription is $499 per year (in the US) for the 
professional level.  This gives you all versions of workstation 
OS's (Win 3.x, Win95 and WinNT/Workstation) and all the SDK's & 
DDK's.  All of the foreign languages are included also.

In addition, you get the entire MS Knowledge Base, all the 
manuals for pretty much all of their products, plus a bunch of 
other books that "might be interesting to a developer".  All 
told, about 50 CD's.

And it is updated Quarterly at a minumum.  There tend to be many 
interim releases of things shuch as Windows/98, NT v5, and other 
stuff.

Anybody who does ANY development in the Windows world needs 
this.  It is invaluable.

The "Universal" subscription level of MSDN is $2,000 per year. 
 It has all of the above plus all of the server stuff.  This 
includes NT Server (v3.51, v4.0 & v5.0), MS SQL Server, 
Transaction Server, Small Buisness Server, etc.

In addition, you also get ALL of the development tools.  Such as 
VC++, VJ++, VB, FoxPro, etc.  This alone is worth close to 
$2,000.

Regardless of your opinion of Windows, if you must work with it, 
MSDN is a must have.  For more (and accurate) information, go to 
www.microsoft.com/msdn

Regards,
Bob Crothers
Cornerstone Communications


-----Original Message-----
From:   David Morris [SMTP:dmorris@plumcreek.com]
Sent:   Wednesday, March 04, 1998 11:02 AM
To:     MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
Subject:        RE: CODE/400

Walden,

You are right.  The prices for VB are more like $400 for 
professional, $1100 for enterprise, but
most people would buy the developers studio for about $850.  To 
ensure your code works
on multiple releases you would also want a subscription of MSDN. 
 About $1000 per
year for the base, or a few thousand more for the full version. 
 I agree with you about a cheap
version.  One copy should come with the operating system.  I 
would bet that would pique interest
in the product.  The biggest expense we had was the new Ethernet 
adapter that was required
because our network does not support source based routing.  The 
adapter wasn't that bad but
it took us roughly 100 hours to figure out what was wrong.  With 
the TCPIP version this is not a
concern.

David Morris

>>> "Walden Leverich" <walden@techsoftinc.com> 03/04 5:43 AM >>>
I must take exception with your pricing on VB. While a learning 
edition of
VB may cost <$100 if you intend to do any serious enterprise 
development
(and you must be, otherwise you're not in an apples-to-apples 
comparison
with Code/400) then you need at least a professional copy, if 
not
enterprise. And if you buy the professional copy, you are 
missing the Change
control interfaces and the ADO support. Pricing on professional 
(from
memory) is ~$300 and ~1000 for Enterprise. Now the Code/400 
prices seem more
reasonable, no?

Don't get me wrong, I still think a "cheap" version of Code/400 
is needed,
the cheap version gets you in the door, once productivity gains 
are seen "in
our shop, with our programmers, doing our work" management is 
much more
willing to spend large amounts of money.

-Walden

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mcsnet!midrange.com!midrange-l-owner@Mcs.Net
> [mailto:mcsnet!midrange.com!midrange-l-owner@Mcs.Net]On Behalf 
Of Chris
> Rehm
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 9:11 AM
> To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> Subject: Re: CODE/400
>
<snip>
>
> If a company wants VisualBasic, or VisualAge for Basic, or 
VisualAge for
> Java, then those suites are in the <$100 range. Code/400 not 
only provides
> extensive tools, but also addresses a smaller market segment. 
Look at the
> list of components in Code/400, compare it to other items on 
the market.
> Take into consideration the Code/400 market. I don't see how 
Code/400
could
> be a profitable item for IBM as it stands, with the small 
amount of market
> adoption for the product, yet it see regular updates and is a 
top notch
> product.
<snip>
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
                                                               
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              !
 
                                                       
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