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  1.  Home
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  3. February 2006

Bad Reference

I agree this is a situation to learn from. As a long time recruiter, I have to say that although references can be dangerous and biased, they are still important to me. However, references are only one piece of the total package in representation of a candidate. I always try to talk to multiple references at different levels. If there is an issue that is voiced by multiple references, then I talk to the applicant and give them a chance to address. It is important to share this info because it helps down the road too.I know a lot of recruiters that never check references anymore because of the credibility issue and reluctance of many references due to liability it creates when they do speak in behalf of a candidate.
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Subject: MIDRANGE-JOBS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 14



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Today's Topics:

  1. Bad reference (Alex Montalvo)
  2. Re: Bad reference (rob@xxxxxxxxx)
  3. Re: Bad reference (Rohit.Ahuja@xxxxxxxxx)
  4. Re: Bad reference (Larry Paque)
  5. Re: Bad reference (Timothy Grove)
  6. Re: Bad reference (Scott Lindstrom)
  7. Re: Bad reference (rob@xxxxxxxxx)
  8. Re: Bad reference (Michael Ryan)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

message: 1
date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:40:32 -0500
from: "Alex Montalvo" <AlexMRPG@xxxxxxx>
subject: Bad reference
I just had the rug pulled from under me by a ex coworker. I thought would be a good reference he used to work for them. They were checking references and I was told they would be wrapping it up and making me an offer before Friday of last week then I hear nothing. I call Tuesday to find I was nixed then found out who it was and what he said. I have it in writing. 

------------------------------

message: 2
date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:58:55 -0500
from: rob@xxxxxxxxx
subject: Re: Bad reference

In this litiguous society some people might take action.  I tend, instead,
to count it as one of God's many blessings.  Now you know not to use this
ex coworker as a reference.

Now, can you find out what was said about you?  And make sure that you
tell the interviewer thank you for the honesty first.  When you find out
what was said take a deep look inside and decide if you can use that
information to better yourself.  And any falsehoods short of them saying
you had inappropriate actions with their German Shepherd I'd let go.

Rob Berendt
--
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





"Alex Montalvo" <AlexMRPG@xxxxxxx>
Sent by: midrange-jobs-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
02/01/2006 01:40 PM

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<MIDRANGE-JOBS@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Bad reference






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I just had the rug pulled from under me by a ex coworker. I thought would
be a good reference he used to work for them.
They were checking references and I was told they would be wrapping it up
and making me an offer before Friday of last week then I hear nothing. I
call Tuesday to find I was nixed then found out who it was and what he
said. I have it in writing.
--
This is the Midrange Jobs: Postings & Discussion (MIDRANGE-JOBS) mailing
list
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------------------------------

message: 3
date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:13:10 -0500
from: Rohit.Ahuja@xxxxxxxxx
subject: Re: Bad reference

I agree with Rob and wants to add that take it as a learning phase.

Even if people have negative stance against someone,,, just avoid
them.......and carry on with your own good work.....

Rohit Ahuja
Key Management Group, Inc.
125 Baylis Road, Suite 260,
Melville, NY 11747
Ph: 631-777-2424 ext 228
fax: 631-777-2626
Cell: 631-988-0110
www.kmgus.com
www.kmgin.com



rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent by: midrange-jobs-bounces+rohit.ahuja=kmgus.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
02/01/2006 01:58 PM

To
<MIDRANGE-JOBS@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc

Subject
Re: Bad reference






*** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
*** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
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In this litiguous society some people might take action.  I tend, instead,

to count it as one of God's many blessings.  Now you know not to use this
ex coworker as a reference.

Now, can you find out what was said about you?  And make sure that you
tell the interviewer thank you for the honesty first.  When you find out
what was said take a deep look inside and decide if you can use that
information to better yourself.  And any falsehoods short of them saying
you had inappropriate actions with their German Shepherd I'd let go.

Rob Berendt
--
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





"Alex Montalvo" <AlexMRPG@xxxxxxx>
Sent by: midrange-jobs-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
02/01/2006 01:40 PM

To
<MIDRANGE-JOBS@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc

Fax to

Subject
Bad reference






*** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
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list.


I just had the rug pulled from under me by a ex coworker. I thought would
be a good reference he used to work for them.
They were checking references and I was told they would be wrapping it up
and making me an offer before Friday of last week then I hear nothing. I
call Tuesday to find I was nixed then found out who it was and what he
said. I have it in writing.
--
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list
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--
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------------------------------

message: 4
date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:31:55 -0600
from: Larry Paque <larry@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Bad reference

One thing I have always done is to ask the person I would like to use as
a reference if it is ok with them if I list them.  I do that with the
hope that people will say no if they won't or are not comfortable giving
a positive referral.
It's sort of along the lines of a lawyer asking a question of a witness
- never ask a question to which you do not already know the answer.
If I did that and the person in question still gave me a bad reference,
I'd feel betrayed.  But then I'd move on and do as others have suggested
- ask myself if it was there was truth in what was said and learn from
the experience either way.

Larry Paque
larry@xxxxxxxxx



Alex Montalvo wrote:

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I just had the rug pulled from under me by a ex coworker. I thought would be a good reference he used to work for them. They were checking references and I was told they would be wrapping it up and making me an offer before Friday of last week then I hear nothing. I call Tuesday to find I was nixed then found out who it was and what he said. I have it in writing. 




------------------------------

message: 5
date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 11:39:28 -0800 (PST)
from: Timothy Grove <tagrove@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Bad reference

Rohit, Rob:
Besides the fact that it is illegal, it might not be practical to just "ignore it and it'll go away, learn from it".
I worked at a place for 7 years at the start of my career. There was another person there who had the same job as I, and she tried sabotaging me to my boss, but was unable to. I leaft, and put the place on my resume, and as a reference. I always got a great reference until my former boss left, and the sabotager then became the IT manager by default. Suddenly, I was getting bad references and not getting jobs. I then had a friend call and pretend to be a prospective employer. She was the one who was giving me the bad reference (which IS slander). I was unable to get this documented, but I never gave the place as a reference after that.
If I had been able to get documentation, I WOULD have sued. This individual cost me at least 3 jobs that were very positive, until she was called. It also cost me by being unemployed an additional 6 months. I eventually did secure a position (where they loved my work ethic, skillset and personality), but the salary was also about $15,000/yr less than the positions that she sabotaged. 

 So, I had economic damage by this person's outright lies about me.
I was forced to just ignore it (because I couldn't get documentation), but this person's illegal act cost me and my family, and I would have sued if I coul have.
I'm a big fan of live and let live, and turn the other cheek. However if a person tells outright lies about me, and costs me livelihood I have no problem in taking action to prevent them from doing so, as well as giving them a strong incentive to discontinue their practice trying to recover the damages done to me.
Sorry, to be letigious, but at times there are valid reasons for being that way..... 

Rohit.Ahuja@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
 *** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
*** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
*** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this list. 


I agree with Rob and wants to add that take it as a learning phase.

Even if people have negative stance against someone,,, just avoid
them.......and carry on with your own good work.....

Rohit Ahuja
Key Management Group, Inc.
125 Baylis Road, Suite 260,
Melville, NY 11747
Ph: 631-777-2424 ext 228
fax: 631-777-2626
Cell: 631-988-0110
www.kmgus.com
www.kmgin.com



rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent by: midrange-jobs-bounces+rohit.ahuja=kmgus.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
02/01/2006 01:58 PM

To

cc

Subject
Re: Bad reference






*** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
*** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
*** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this
list.


In this litiguous society some people might take action. I tend, instead,

to count it as one of God's many blessings. Now you know not to use this
ex coworker as a reference.

Now, can you find out what was said about you? And make sure that you
tell the interviewer thank you for the honesty first. When you find out
what was said take a deep look inside and decide if you can use that
information to better yourself. And any falsehoods short of them saying
you had inappropriate actions with their German Shepherd I'd let go.

Rob Berendt
--
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





"Alex Montalvo"
Sent by: midrange-jobs-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
02/01/2006 01:40 PM

To

cc

Fax to

Subject
Bad reference






*** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
*** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
*** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this
list.


I just had the rug pulled from under me by a ex coworker. I thought would
be a good reference he used to work for them.
They were checking references and I was told they would be wrapping it up
and making me an offer before Friday of last week then I hear nothing. I
call Tuesday to find I was nixed then found out who it was and what he
said. I have it in writing.
--
This is the Midrange Jobs: Postings & Discussion (MIDRANGE-JOBS) mailing
list
To post a message email: MIDRANGE-JOBS@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-jobs
or email: MIDRANGE-JOBS-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

--
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list
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--
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------------------------------

message: 6
date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:48:57 -0600
from: Scott Lindstrom <SLindstrom@xxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Bad reference

What surprises me here is while I'll give names of friends for personal
references, I know of no company I've ever worked for that will do anything other than verify dates of employment on a reference check. Most companies 
avoid saying anything else just to avoid problems.  They having nothing to
gain and everything to lose by saying more.

Scott



------------------------------

message: 7
date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:52:14 -0500
from: rob@xxxxxxxxx
subject: Re: Bad reference

So would it have been better if both her, and the guy who liked you,
responded with the standard:  "We don't give references out of fear of
lawsuits."?
Because people have been sued for being too nice.  New employer sinks
thousands into new hire for training and productivity to increase only to
find out that the person had all sorts of obvious very bad habits at the
old place of employment that the reference didn't mention.  New employer
sues, successfully, the old employer.

And I think there are stupid legal rules to this game.  Someone told me
that you could get into trouble for saying "Their attendance was poor."
But it would be ok to say "According to our records they were absent,
without excuse, 237 days last year.  And they were tardy 110 days, without
excuse, for no less than 1 hour each time."  And you shouldn't volunteer
the information.  You should wait until asked.

Rob Berendt
--
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





Timothy Grove <tagrove@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: midrange-jobs-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
02/01/2006 02:39 PM

To
MIDRANGE-JOBS@xxxxxxxxxxxx
cc

Fax to

Subject
Re: Bad reference






*** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
*** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
*** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this
list.


Rohit, Rob:

 Besides the fact that it is illegal, it might not be practical to just
"ignore it and it'll go away, learn from it".

 I worked at a place for 7 years at the start of my career.  There was
another person there who had the same job as I, and she tried sabotaging
me to my boss, but was unable to.  I leaft, and put the place on my
resume, and as a reference.  I always got a great reference until my
former boss left, and the sabotager then became the IT manager by default.
Suddenly, I was getting bad references and not getting jobs.  I then had
a friend call and pretend to be a prospective employer.  She was the one
who was giving me the bad reference (which IS slander).  I was unable to
get this documented, but I never gave the place as a reference after that.

 If I had been able to get documentation, I WOULD have sued.  This
individual cost me at least 3 jobs that were very positive, until she was
called.  It also cost me by being unemployed an additional 6 months.  I
eventually did secure a position (where they loved my work ethic, skillset
and personality), but the salary was also about $15,000/yr less than the
positions that she sabotaged.

 So, I had economic damage by this person's outright lies about me.

 I was forced to just ignore it (because I couldn't get documentation),
but this person's illegal act cost me and my family, and I would have sued
if I coul have.

 I'm a big fan of live and let live, and turn the other cheek.  However
if a person tells outright lies about me, and costs me livelihood I have
no problem in taking action to prevent them from doing so, as well as
giving them a strong incentive to discontinue their practice trying to
recover the damages done to me.

 Sorry, to be letigious, but at times there are valid reasons for being
that way.....

Rohit.Ahuja@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
 *** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
*** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
*** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this
list.


I agree with Rob and wants to add that take it as a learning phase.

Even if people have negative stance against someone,,, just avoid
them.......and carry on with your own good work.....

Rohit Ahuja
Key Management Group, Inc.
125 Baylis Road, Suite 260,
Melville, NY 11747
Ph: 631-777-2424 ext 228
fax: 631-777-2626
Cell: 631-988-0110
www.kmgus.com
www.kmgin.com



rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent by: midrange-jobs-bounces+rohit.ahuja=kmgus.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
02/01/2006 01:58 PM

To

cc

Subject
Re: Bad reference






*** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
*** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
*** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this
list.


In this litiguous society some people might take action. I tend, instead,

to count it as one of God's many blessings. Now you know not to use this
ex coworker as a reference.

Now, can you find out what was said about you? And make sure that you
tell the interviewer thank you for the honesty first. When you find out
what was said take a deep look inside and decide if you can use that
information to better yourself. And any falsehoods short of them saying
you had inappropriate actions with their German Shepherd I'd let go.

Rob Berendt
--
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





"Alex Montalvo"
Sent by: midrange-jobs-bounces+rob=dekko.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
02/01/2006 01:40 PM

To

cc

Fax to

Subject
Bad reference






*** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
*** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
*** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this
list.


I just had the rug pulled from under me by a ex coworker. I thought would
be a good reference he used to work for them.
They were checking references and I was told they would be wrapping it up
and making me an offer before Friday of last week then I hear nothing. I
call Tuesday to find I was nixed then found out who it was and what he
said. I have it in writing.
--
This is the Midrange Jobs: Postings & Discussion (MIDRANGE-JOBS) mailing
list
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------------------------------

message: 8
date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:56:12 -0500
from: Michael Ryan <michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Bad reference
I can't imagine not asking someone if they would be a reference before I use 
them. And when I ask them, I would ask them their opinion. If they tell me
one thing and a prospective employer  something else, then I'm a bad judge
of character.

On 2/1/06 01:58 PM, "rob@xxxxxxxxx" <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


*** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
*** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
*** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this list.
In this litiguous society some people might take action. I tend, instead, 
to count it as one of God's many blessings.  Now you know not to use this
ex coworker as a reference.

Now, can you find out what was said about you?  And make sure that you
tell the interviewer thank you for the honesty first.  When you find out
what was said take a deep look inside and decide if you can use that
information to better yourself.  And any falsehoods short of them saying
you had inappropriate actions with their German Shepherd I'd let go.

Rob Berendt




------------------------------

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