Re: Support for Release 6 - Upgrade and MigrationCHALLENGE -- MAPICS-L

We are currently at R6 and have seen very little value to migrating to
R7. I'd be thrilled for someone who has actually had to justify the
upgrade to walk me thru their thought process for upgrading to R7. It's
just not clear to me.....

-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin Fox
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:45 PM
To: 'MAPICS ERP System Discussion'
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Support for Release 6 - Upgrade and
MigrationCHALLENGE

All,

I'd like to piggy back on Robert's comments.

Because XA (IBM as MAPICS/DB or MAPICS and INFOR as XA) long ago adopted
the
strategic philosophy of evolving the applications into next generation
technologies instead of reinventing the applications in new technologies
which would have prohibited easy upgrades and migrations, there exists a
relatively easy upgrade / migration path from MAPICS II (Y2K) all the
way to
Infor XA R7.8.

This means investment protection.

Everyone should understand the significance of this and always include
it in
competitive evaluations. How many enterprise system vendors can make
the
statement that there exists a predefined AND available migration /
upgrade
path from their original applications (CA 1977) through to the most
recent
release?

I'm not being rhetorical, I'd really like to know if anyone can provide
an
answer. I personally know of no other vendor that can make this claim.

There is however a dark side to this strategy. There is a significant
minority of you who are not on a product version that was released after
2002 (R7). You are paying maintenance to STAY on old technology. Your
paying for enhancements that you do not have and cannot enjoy the
productivity gains from.

Please note, I'm up on my soapbox.

During the past 25 years I've moved in and out of the
IBM/Marcam/MAPICS/Infor worlds. I've successfully implemented numerous
SAP,
Oracle, Microsoft Dynamics (their current name for many different
applications), Epicor, IFS, BPCS (all versions), PeopleSoft, JD Edwards,
and
a few others that are now defunct.

There is a significant difference between the companies that have
successfully deployed these applications and those that have deployed
XA,
they spend more money on IS and IT. Not a little more, a lot more.
Just
one example. I ran a project for a $400million high tech company in San
Diego 4 years ago. The project was to upgrade from Oracle eBusiness
11.1 to
Oracle eBusiness 11.6. Note, this is a "dot" upgrade. The company
spent
$1.2 million and 9 months to test, modify, test, modify, pilot test and
deploy the Oracle provided service packs. Just to relate this to the
Infor
XA world. This would be equivalent to upgrading from XA 7.1 to XA 7.6.
If
Infor released "PCM" packs which had not been tested, and required the
amount of CUSTOMER written code to get it all working, you, the MAPICS
and
XA community would rise up in protest and scream "we are not going to
take
it anymore".

As a prolog to the above, this same company 2 years later spent $2.1
million
to move from 11.6 to 11.8 and they are now spending $7.5 million to move
from 11.8 to 12.2. They spend approximately 7% of REVENUE per year on
IS/IT
AND THINK IT A BARGAIN!!!

100% of the XA community that I know of that has already moved to R7.x
is
very pleased and happy they did. The productivity gains are enormous.

So, here is my challenge to everyone on this list. If you cannot cost
justify (ESPECIALLY IF THE ECONOMY IS SLOWING DOWN!) migrating and
moving to
R7.8 within the next 6 months, lets discuss here in this forum.

Note, I am not soliciting consulting work, I have more than I can handle
already. If you ask me to come on site, I'm sorry I won't be able to as
I
just don't have the time. Also, you should note that I am an
independent
consultant that receives zero revenue from Infor or their Affiliates for
the
sale of Infor software.

This forum is about sharing knowledge to allow all of us to utilize the
XA
suite of products better. I'm willing to share my knowledge here in
this
forum if you are willing to take the challenge and share it with all of
us.

Here are the guidelines:

1. No dollars are to be disclosed. This can violate some of your
employment
agreements, especially if you are a public company.
2. All "values" are to be discussed as a range of ratios relative to
either
Revenue or Cost of Software/Maintenance/Services.
a. For example, "We spend between 1% to 3% of revenue on IS/IT".
b. For example, "Benefits will be 150% of our cost
(Software/Maintenance/Services or any one of the three)".
3. No full disclosure of quotes from Infor or Affiliates are to be
provided
in the forum. This usually violates your contracts which are in place
for
competitive reasons.

If you all can think of other guidelines for this challenge, let me
know.

For those of you already on R7, kudos your investing. But this
challenge is
open to you as well. What will it take to deploy the advantages in
R7.8?

The reward for this challenge, is your going to get help learning how to
justify IS migration or upgrade for XA.

I have NEVER failed at developing a cost justification that is accepted
AND
objectively measurable since the release of R6. Will you be the first?

The Challenge is on! Are you up to it?

Kevin Fox

-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Robert Russell
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:51 PM
To: MAPICS ERP System Discussion
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Support for Release 6

Patrick,

We spend a lot of time in development support the coexistence of Grenn
Screen and "GUI" apps for just that reason. So yes, you can upgrade to
the latest release to use the interface you are currently using and
migrate at your pace.

Robert

Robert Russell | Vice President, iCOE Product Development | Infor |
office: 678-319-8277 | mobile: 404-388-8640 | fax: 678-319-9277 |
robert.russell@xxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Patrick Shrader
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:42 PM
To: MAPICS ERP System Discussion
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Support for Release 6

Thanks, Kevin. That is good information. Thankfully I've learned the
quirks of R5 and we can manage through any issues we have ongoing. But
with hardware and OS changes, and frankly changing business needs, R5's
days are numbered here.

Will release 7.8 still have the green screen apps available? Yes, I
recognize the value of the Integrator applications, and I would agree to
all the arguments that Green Screen apps have gone away, but can we
migrate to R7 and use the green screens while we migrate to the GUI
apps?

There's only so much we can bite off and chew at one time. I'd like to
get the existing applications ported to 7, then migrate from there up to
Integrator/Link applications.

Thanks,
Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin Fox
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:34 PM
To: 'MAPICS ERP System Discussion'
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Support for Release 6

All,

Support for R5 is EOL. What this means is that no more bugs have been
found in a significant amount of time (i.e. 1 year) and so ending
support just means that no new fixes will be required. Anyone running
R5 will be happy as they should not be having code issues.

Obviously there are still bugs found in R6. Mostly related to
non-Atlanta application integration (i.e. Advanced Planner, et.al.)

There is no announcement on 8.0. Release 7.8 will be General Release
(GA)
approx. the same time as the conference in Las Vegas. At that time they
will most likely announce 7.9 for next year.

I'd suspect, and this is just my opinion, that they will not announce
R8.0 until 100% of green screen is out of the product.

That being said, there are major enhancements at 7.8 that make it almost
a new application. R7.8 was just early released mid May. We are in the
process of deploying it and hope to have it running in approx. 2 weeks.
Please note that it is an almost new application with significant
changes to the underlying architecture. So far, so good.

The enhancements to Enterprise Integrator, System Link and Net Link are
such that it would be impossible not to be able to cost justify and
upgrade from any previous version. This includes 7.7! AND THAT DOES
NOT INCLUDE THE MAJOR ENHANCEMENTS IN THE CORE APPLICATIONS (I.E.
Inventory Transactions and History Tracking!)

Will keep you all posted on our progress.

Kevin Fox

-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Patrick Shrader
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 11:27 AM
To: MAPICS ERP System Discussion
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Support for Release 6

Hey, you aren't obsolete! I'm still chugging away on Release 5.0 quite
happily. Where is the announcement for R8? After that release settles
down, I may consider upgrading to 8.0, instead of 7, later this year.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of LeLeux@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 2:46 PM
To: MAPICS ERP System Discussion
Subject: [MAPICS-L] Support for Release 6

Hello all..

I was scouring the Infor365 website to see if there was any
information
regarding EOL for R6. All I could confirm was that anything prior
was
already EOL. Not to mention support for V5R2.

Anyone hear anything about R6 that could be confirmed? I'm trying to
justify my upgrade (R7, new box, etc) and was working the obsolence
argument and a gut feel won't cut it! :)

BTW - I saw the GA announcement for R8, really making me feel
obsolete!

Just asking - not trying to stir anything up.... :)

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