Re: EGL: Integration or Migration?

You can disagree, but I'd love to see proof. Again, I simply refer you
back to the ill-fated San Francisco project to show how OO does not
always map well to business issues.

I suspected you would choose EJB (SF) as an example. It is widely known that
EJB is very much over architectured and compex to be all and nothing. Bad design
etc. Has nothing to do with OO perse. Another example would be Spring. This is a
more lightweight framework that became very popular because of the
complexities of EJB. It seems that there are a lot of sattisfied business developers
using spring. In general, the less code, the better. Applies not only to Java.

On a side note, things like EJB, Websphere, WS and the lots and lots of XML
configuration files are so complex (and the things we do are normally not that
complex) because IBM (and other) are trying to sell lots of consultancy hours.
That's where the money is. Not in simple straightforward systems like "i".

It's quite easy to teach procedural languages to logical people.

It's also easy to teach OO programming to people without an extensive
procedural programming background (or even no programming at all).
Smalltalk was invented to learn programming to children, because
"everything" is an object with can do things is much more natural than
"everything" consists of datastructures, records, procedures and
instructions, etc. Its also quite difficult to teach structured programming
to programmers who only programmed with GOTO and TAG the
last 20 years.


Like i said, to make EGL more procedural like is a good commercial move
of IBM. They apparantly listened to the critics when they introduced Java as
the next business language (are the clueless??). But does this mean that
OO is bad. No it means that OO is alien to the average RPG programmer.
Even ILE (or the concept of modular programming) is alien. Has nothing to
do with OO perse.


OK, i stop, or else i have to move to another discussion group, and i
dont feel like doing that.

Have a nice weekend

Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:53:24 -0500
From: joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: egl-i@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [EGL-i] EGL: Integration or Migration?

john e wrote:

I object to Joe's constant referring to OO as not suitable for business code as it is not
able to react to change easily is because it is utter Bogus, and i suspect Joe knows that.

You suspect wrong. I firmly believe that procedural is better than OO
for business rules. It's my opinion, backed up by years of experience.
You can disagree, but I'd love to see proof. Again, I simply refer you
back to the ill-fated San Francisco project to show how OO does not
always map well to business issues. That's why there is no traction for
OO SQL.

Also, I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm not saying that a group of
dedicated, expert OO programmers can't build a business system. I am
saying that a group of decent, work-a-day RPG programmers could do the
job quicker and end up with a result that runs better and is easier to
maintain.

And that may be part of the problem: in order to create an OO
application, you need OO experts from the beginning. And to create an
OO business system, you need OO experts who understand business. And
there are lots of RPG programmers who understand business. Lots of RPG
programmers started out as business people who showed an aptitude for
logic; it's quite easy to teach procedural languages to logical people.

Anyway, you can go on for years about this. This is the last that I'm
going to argue OO vs. procedural in this list. If you want to argue the
merits of Java, it's best done in JAVA400-L. This list is about EGL,
and since EGL generates OO code from procedural syntax, it's good to
agree to disagree on the merits of the two and move on.

Joe

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