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I think your opinion is full of horse hockey.  Prejudicing someone because
they are certified is bunk.  There is no way some newbie could pass those
ICCP tests.  Especially the management ones.  Questions on there included
some stuff I only learned when negotiating maintenance contracts, etc.
Some guy here, a VERY sharp and proficient coder had a tough time with
these questions.

Granted, if you're looking for a person who fits tightly into a particular
niche, who you can throw out when you move to the next niche, then you may
not have a need for some of these other certifications.

You SHOULD take some of these tests.  Then maybe your opinion would
change.  I liked it when I took my ICCP test at COMMON, years ago.

Rob Berendt
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

"Steve Landess" <>
Sent by:
11/01/2002 02:06 PM
Please respond to consult400

        To:     <>
        Fax to:
        Subject:        [Consult400] Re: ICCA members

> From: "Patrick Conner" <>
> To:
> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:11:06 -0500
> Subject: [Consult400] ICCA members

As part owner of a consulting firm that has employed as many as 120
consultants (mostly full-time employees), and in a position of being a
hiring manager, here's my 2 cents worth:

> How many of you are members of the Independent Computer
> Consultants Assoc. (ICCA)? I was thinking of joining.

I am not a member of ICCA.  I have looked at what they have to offer, and
looks to me that they are oriented towards one-man shops.  I already have
place most of the benefits that they might offer.  If I were on my own, I
might consider joining.  That's not to say that it might benefit you.

You need to measure the benefits that you gain to the cost.  If your
insurance premium is $ 500.00 per month and you can reduce it to $ 300.00
per month by joining ICCA, then this alone would justify it.

> Also, I've been looking at the Certified Computer
> Profession certification. Is that worth anything?

It has been a while since I looked into this.  Back when I did, I was not
particularly impressed with the certifications offered by the ICCP.  In
past, when I investigated it, the certification examinations were based on
questions that were oriented toward legacy systems.

In fact, when I see CCP or CDP behind someone's name (no offense to you,
Roger), I am more likely to be prejudiced NOT to hire them.  I have a
Bachelor of Business Administration AND a Master's degree in Human
and Business, but I don't sign my letters with BBA/MS behind my
signature...I think that's a little pretentious.  Even if I had a doctoral
degree, I don't think that I would sign my correspondence Stephen Landess,

Again, I think that you need to evaluate the benefits you will gain versus
the cost and time required to obtain the certification.  I measure them in
terms of dollars.  This may be somewhat difficult to quantify, unless
e can provide you with empirical proof in the form that they made X
from 1991 thru 1995, then got certified and made Y dollars from 1996 thru
2002, and can directly attribute the increase (if any) to the

Since graduation from college in 1977, I have been lucky enough to work in
many S/34, S/36, S/38, and AS/400 shops that had multiple employees and
different commercial software packages.  I have learned MUCH more from
studying the code written by vendors and my peers than I will ever learn
from having formal certifications.

On the other hand, If I ever have time to attend another COMMON conference
(or if they are offered in a site convenient to me), I MAY be inclined to
take some of the IBM certification tests, just to get an idea of what they
consider appropriate knowledge to qualify as certified.  Even then, I
wouldn't probably sign my correspondence with Stephen Landess, IBM
Specialist.  To me, this smells of someone who is inexperienced and is
trying to gain credence with the certification.

No offense intended...

And, as always, that's just my opinion

Steve Landess
Austin, Texas
(512) 423-0935
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