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Thanks Harmon The effectivity date scenario is very plausible ... we do not enter customer order until after the engineering is done & on some new customer requirements with short lead times there is a mad scramble to get the engineering done so that the order processing can start ... the engineers are sending out messages all day ... such & such a part is ready in a certain facility & immediately co-workers are keying in orders on that end-part so that the system can do its thing. Your explanation might also apply to engineering changes ... we have some customer scenarios in which when they have a change, they want us to stop immediately production on the old version, but is MRP going to plan the sub-components correctly on the new version when we are in the middle of it & some of the requirements are now going to be past due, relative to the effectivity date of the engineering change? We have this recurring problem of troubles shipping customer parts, that have short lead times, because some department did not get the word to make some neccessary sub-assembly & why not ... well I have been tackling it from the perspective of the mass of data is just too overwhelming, we need to make the big picture of the work to be done to navigate, while upper management has been tackling it by increasing staff. We figure out why in some cases then assume that the same story might be true in others, when in fact there may be other problems we are not seeing. I waded thru the MRP documentation last nite & it plainly states several things of direct relevance to us that we should have known a year ago, but when plain statements are buried in an Encyclopaedia that lacks good indexing, the documentation is not going to be read in a timely manner. Scenario - sales keys in a customer order in which MRP500 calculated production dates would stick due date as PAST DUE at time of creation, relative to our PLANNING DATE, then MRP does not create the planned order - the MRP500 documentation says so, except that does not explain why this only happens on the first run of a new part --- Harmon's explanation does. Now we do not have Human Planners per se, rather people who use the MRP generated orders to launch reccommended production & purchase orders, so there needs to be a methodology of communicating to them when this scenario occurs, that is not going to result in dropped information. Our scenario is that occasionally a customer order is entered in which the cumulative lead time means that some lower level items would be past due at time of order launch, so MRP does not plan them, so some human has to plan them. This is not a violation of company policy, because provided we know this is going on, we can authorize over-time etc. to get the job done, but there has to be visibility of the reality, which is somewhat lacking today. New person in that human role ... How am I supposed to know this? Answer ... Sales is supposed to tell you. Which begs the question - how is Sales supposed to know when they have this scenario? I mean different customer parts have different cumulative lead times & the promise date IS in the future, it is not like they are entering a past due customer order. Bottom Line Answer - I think ultimately Sales is going to need another of Al Mac's "brilliant programs." I can just predict Sharon saying "Al, couldn't you have a pop-up screen at time of order entry asking ARE YOU SURE? when we try to enter an order on an item whose cumulative lead time drives requirements into a time machine?" But I have already determined that sort of scenario is not doable for a host of reasons. 1. We need better visibility end item vs. cumulative lead time, because this is not a fixed value - it wanders all over the place, depending on the complexity of the part & other factors. 2. Via SFC350 or BOM300 you can call up a customer end item on screen & it tells you cumulative lead time ... except to start the thing the filters are not intuitively obvious & you have to scroll to find the largest cumulative lead time ... I think I need to clone the code that calculates that stuff (is there a report that does it?), placing that into a report in which user keys range of item #s & you get one line per item telling you 2-a standard info on that item 2-b what the longest cumulative lead time is on that item 2-c add number days involved to current week's MRP planning time frame (MRP120 start date) = the EARLIEST you can promise delivery of this item in a customer order entered this week on this item without causing MRP indigestion ... this assumes we have no safety stock ... you can always go into SFC350 for the precise math 3. Place this general logic inside a larger software, in which the user would select a particular customer number (or range of customer #s like where we have one customer # for each division of a customer & the numbers are contiguous). The customer number would go to the file of recent shipments & current orders & come up with a list of end item numbers that we make for that customer & then that would drive the selection of items for the report described in step 2. 4. All the people, involved in discussing with the customer the consequences of the time it takes to resolve THEIR engineering design problem, would have a copy of this report on that customer, which they could fax to the customer to show how the failure to resolve this more timely vs. what the lead time situation is. One good thing about me reading this documentation is that I now see how we might be able to use Planning Bills to help with another situation. We have this scenario of a particular customer in which our contractual arrangement is that we build to their drawings, but they often have an error in their engineering drawing in which IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to make the part as described - we identify this to the customer & give them some alternatives, and resolution of this problem is slow to work its way through that company, and the deadline is rapidly approaching regarding when they are going to need the parts, such that there is NO WAY we can make it on time if we do not enter the customer order requirements until the engineering problem is resolved, guaranteeing a scramble to get the materials, with various costs moving parts on the company plane. But thanks to my readings of MRP documentation to try to figure out the latest question, I see how we might be able to reduce the cost chaos of this other problem.. 1. Let's assume that WE WILL be making this part, once the customer straightens out their design documentation. 2. Ask someone who knows more about this subject than I do whether or not this scheme is gonna work, so we do not get into the same mess we got into when we mucked around with Shop Order Number System and History retention days. 3. Create a PLANNING BILL OF MATERIAL for this part, that excludes the sub-assembly that has the engineering problem in it, but includes everything else. 4. Throw the switch in SYSTEM PARAMETERS that says that we DO WANT MRP to generate orders to fulfill Planning Bill Requirements. 5. This will result in us manufacturing 100% of the problem part EXCLUDING the problem sub-part of the problem end-part. 6. When the customer gets their engineering problem resolved, we can then enter a REGULAR CUSTOMER ORDER on the corrected part. 7. Throw the switch in SYSTEM PARAMETERS back the way it is now saying that WE DO NOT WANT MRP TO GENERATE ORDERS ON PLANNING BILLS. 8. The REGULAR CUSTOMER ORDER will consume the portion of the problem part that was not a problem & we only need to scramble to get the work done on the sub-part that was the problem. Al Macintyre BPCS 405 CD +--- | This is the BPCS Users Mailing List! | To submit a new message, send your mail to BPCS-L@midrange.com. | To subscribe to this list send email to BPCS-L-SUB@midrange.com. | To unsubscribe from this list send email to BPCS-L-UNSUB@midrange.com. | Questions should be directed to the list owner: dasmussen@aol.com +---
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