I don't want to really get into a debate here, but I do have to answer a few of these points. Take the time to work with Rails and you'll find that it, like many other frameworks, is simply a fast way to do certain things. And while some of the concepts may seem cool at first, I find the conventions to eventually be too restrictive for enterprise programming. For example, you need to remember to name your tables plurally. A reference to another table is the SINGULAR of that table name with "_id" concatenated. You don't HAVE to follow this convention, but you lose some benefits if you don't. It has some neat features, and it is more complete than some of the other frameworks, but the exact same components exist for many other languages, such as Perl. The "programming by convention" is perhaps a nicety for people who don't like to type, but I've never been particularly enamored by something that magically figures out code based on naming conventions; inevitably I need to break the naming convention and bad things happen. Moving on, your bit about EGL being heavy is just silly. WDSC is certainly heavy, but that's because it's a full-fledged IDE. Ruby on Rails, for example, is a primarily text-based scripting environment. Try renaming something in Ruby and see if it automatically fixes every reference. EGL, on the other hand, is about as light a framework as I've seen. You define data elements with as much (or as little) metadata as you want, group those data elements into records, and then use the records to build your UI and your database access. Specify something as a key field in a record and it is used as a key in database access and is protected in the UI when updating a record. It's simple, clean and really fast. I'd also like to dispel some of your WDSC FUD. Yes, WDSC updates are large. As are iSeries cumes. That's because they're large products, and if a monthly download of a GB is too much for you, then you ought to find another platform. Also, you can download the updates and then apply them later, so you don't have to "worry about the network going down". Finally, it's been a long time since a WDSC update destabilized my workbench... and I do a LOT of work with WDSC. When is the last time you saw someone do an update that actually broke their working environment? Anyway, enough of this. There's nothing wrong with Ruby. Or Tapestry, or Turbine and Velocity, or Zope, or Laszlo, or any of a number of other frameworks out there. Me, I prefer an environment that will allow me to quickly build a thin framework that will in turn access RPG, and JSP Model II is the answer for that. The question is whether EGL provides the productivity for JSP Model II that Visual Studio provides for .NET, and my initial take on it is that it is headed in the right direction. Joe
-----Original Message----- From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nathan Andelin Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:05 AM To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries Subject: Re: [WEB400] Ruby On Rails on the iSeries Rails offers a lot of time savers. Scripts for generating default directory structures for applications. Scripts for generating basic CRUD applications. Scripts for generating Model/View/Controller source files. Built-in components that generate HTML, which can be used in addition to a WYSIWYG editor, or as an alternative. Built-in components which are just extensions of base classes, reducing the programmer code to a minimum. A framework that automatically performs mapping between the database and the screen, and visa versa, based on naming conventions is a powerful concept. Interpretive runtime environments are seductively appealing in the first place. There's no compile, build, or deployment steps. You can immediately see the results of your work on the screen, or error messages generated by the runtime environment. It probably can't be beat for prototyping and rapid application development, so long as the applications are essentially adaptations of supported models. Tools like WDSC and EGL are HEAVY, in comparison. Downloading updates to WDSC are an overnight proposition. You hope the network doesn't go down in the mean time. The development and deployment environments are so massive that you hope an update won't destabilize your machine. If Rails is simple, and it works, then it's probably destined to attract the type of people, and the type of loyalty, that's typical in the iSeries community.