Re: "EGL is the easiest langauge to learn" - Joe Pluta was-> Problem updating Rational Developer for System i for SOA Construction

Aaron Bartell wrote:

Do you honestly think people are going to stick with RPG when they start
adopting EGL?

This is your argument? Don't use EGL because you might not stick with RPG?

You're filling a role with another language that RPG could play - that's all
I am saying.

But neither as easily nor as well as with EGL. Use the best tool for the job.

I actually don't mind a thin Java veneer over RPG when it
doesn't require Java/EGL compilation or learning Java/EGL as a language.
Frankly, the JSP II approach of yours that I have seen is quite nice with
one exception - you have to know JSP.

Using RPG, you have to know HTML. And CSS. And to do anything correctly, JavaScript. Adding JSP to the mix is hardly difficult. But you continue to insist its too hard. So with EGL, you don't have to know any of those things, because the tool does it for you. And yet you still complain.

Imagine if you would take out that
requirement and simply add some meta data coming from the RPG side so the
JSP knew how to render vs. the RPG programmer needing to know how to code a
new language syntax (i.e. JSP).

I prefer the business logic to not know anything about the user interface. I prefer the business logic to be exposed to the caller, be it a workstation in the next room or a phone across the globe, and let the client side logic determine how to display the data.

The best tool for HTTP messaging is Java.

For a Java shop, yes, for an RPG shop, no. We will have to agree to
disagree.

The fitness of a language for a purpose does not depend on the skill set of the shop. If a shop knows only Pascal, then Pascal is the only thing they can use. That doesn't make Pascal better. It just makes it the only thing they can use.

Java (including the Java generated by EGL) is a much better language than RPG for HTTP messaging because of the standard libraries. It can also be moved to another platform so that it can be placed in the DMZ, thereby eliminating any direct external connection to the business logic server. The web server can then also be scaled independently of the business logic server. I'm not saying these are the best solution for everyone, but with a pure RPG solution they're not a possibility for anyone.

We can agree to disagree, sure, but you might want to tell us why RPG is better than Java for these things.

Please know you are speaking from your experiences which does not cover a
huge spectrum of web service usage. I am speaking from my experiences which
also doesn't cover ever spectrum of usage.

Speak for yourself. I happen to work with some experts in the field - people who are doing things that would blow you away. The rich client world almost exclusively uses RESTful comunications based on JSON, and that is the basis of Web 2.0.

For a good introduction to the JSON-vs-XML discussion, read this: http://www.infoq.com/news/2006/12/json-vs-xml-debate.

I am not going to get into a peeing match with you Joe. I already told you
the RPG approach will take many more steps. I even provided you a 15 minute
video tutorial (sorry I didn't have time to put audio with it - was last
minute). What else do you want? I specifically said it is a huge advantage
for an RPG shop to use RPG for web services even if it takes them more lines
of code. I would guess you disagree with that sentiment so let's agree to
disagree.

Here is the code for an EGL web service. All of the plumbing is then generated for you.

package services;

service AaronTest

function getName(customer char(10)) returns(char(30))
name char(30);
call "ILEProgram" (customer, name);
return (name);
end

end

Please tell me how many lines of code it takes for you. I'm not interested in a video, just in facts. WHIle your video is cool and all, I don't really have the time to download your video and then spend 15 minutes watching you program. Just show us the code. Show us how many lines of RPG code it takes to process an industry-standard web request and return a result, including any templates that need to be written. Then people on the list can decide whether it's worth it to learn EGL or whether they should just hammer along with RPG.

By the way, I don't need a video to show how this is done in RDi-SOA. I can tell you right here: I right click on the service to generate the WSDL. I right click on the project and say Generate to deploy it on the test server and test right on my workstation. I right click and say Export to send it to a server on any machine in the world.

Except for the need to purchase RDi-SOA.

In your scenario, they need to purchase your product. So you'd rather they purchase your product than IBM's, even though EGL is easier, faster and requires far less code, and can do way more than your RPG-XML suite. And your final argument is that "all RPG is better".

And to upgrade from the free
version of WAS Express after you have outgrown it. Or is WAS 6.1 free now?

EGL deploys to Tomcat as well. Guess that dog don't hunt...

Joe