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Trevor,I agree that the breadth of 3rd party applications is what makes it an excellent business platform. But NOT for OS level items. That would weaken the platform. Integrated security, database, I/O subsystems, communication subsystems, etc. are the things that make it strong because they are supplied by IBM.
I believe that the UI services and print output services should be supplied by IBM if they want to maintain the stability that the machine is known for. Also, if 3rd party solutions are required for these basic items, then they won't be ubiquitous and the programs will still have a "dated" look to them. If we can't easily (with no additional add-ons or special hardware) print graphical output, then most reports will also look old style. A new name will in NO WAY convince a customer otherwise.
-mark At 12/8/06 12:44 PM, you wrote:
Mark, I am not arguing to hold out on a GUI. There are so many people doing GUI on System i that is utter crap, but they still do it. And those are the people who give the AS/400 name more bad press. Yes, IBM seem to be planning your "EXFMT" option. In the meantime, though, there ARE tools that are NOT hard to configure, NOT hard to debug, and NOT resource hogging solutions. Yes, they are third party, but that does not mean they should be avoided. The System i legacy IS THIRD party... Trevor ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Lazarus" <mlazarus@xxxxxxxx> To: "Midrange Systems Technical Discussion" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Saving the System i: Fight Rather Than Switch > Trevor, > > The name becomes important when the much larger issues get resolved. > Pronouncing the Target store chain "Tar-zhay" does not make them an > upscale store. > > When I say native GUI, I don't mean add-ons, screen scrapers, 3rd party > solutions, hard to configure, hard to debug, resource hogging solutions. > I mean an integrated, full player in the GUI arena. This needs to be as > available to the RPG as the EXFMT keyword is. > > The 5250 interface, despite its *vast* array of colors and fonts <vbg>, > looks and feels very dated. When a demo is given to a prospect, that's > what he feels - that it's old - even if you wrote it yesterday. > > If someone can't write a decent screen, then you're right, a GUI wouldn't > help them. How is that an argument to withold it from those that can? > > -mark > > >> And just as you think the name is not important, I don't believe having a >> native GUI is key to our future. There are lots of native GUIs - just as >> Linux has KDE or Gnome for their desktop, i5/OS has many native IBM and >> third party choices for GUI. You just have to use the right one in the >> right >> manner. >> >> Besides, there are very few System i developers who can even configure >> their >> iSeries Access windows to show any design sense - how would a GUI help >> them? >> >> Get a Designer, get a decent GUI tool, and take GUI out of the equation. >> This is already more than possible... >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "M. Lazarus" <mlazarus@xxxxxxxx> >> To: "Midrange Systems Technical Discussion" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:01 AM >> Subject: Re: Saving the System i: Fight Rather Than Switch >> >> >>> Trevor, >>> >>> We've heard the "name game" refrain for a while, but IMHO, that's >>> missing the mark by a long shot. That's like saying that the entire >>> Ferrari line won't sell if I paint some pink. As "modern" as this >>> platform is, there are some gaping holes that only IBM can fix, but >>> they choose not to. I'll throw out a few, others can chime in with >>> additional items and details. >>> >>> 1) IBM seems to be embarrassed by the box. Put a pSeries up against >>> an iSeries in a potential sale and chances are the pSeries will win, >>> if there's an IBM sales rep involved. They don't market it >>> properly. All of us in the field recognize that. Since I don't >>> believe that the parade of IBM'ers over the years in charge of >>> marketing the box are stupid, the only conclusion I can come to is >>> that it's deliberately being sabotaged. I don't know why, but I'm >>> not privy to those meetings. >>> >>> 2) A native GUI is mandatory. I don't want to hear about HATS, >>> Websphere or other screen scraper technology. A simple DDS interface >>> will make it accessible to the masses. This needs to be part of the >>> OS, right out of the box, w/ no additional configuration required. >>> >>> 3) Printing and viewing popular PC images are a royal pain, without >>> conversions or add-ons. Could you imagine if Microsoft charged extra >>> to print standard graphics files? >>> >>> 4) Pricing. Take a page out of Microsoft's marketing >>> machine. Purchasing this machine should be a slam dunk for any IT >>> manager. IBM loves to throw out the 3-5 year ROI calculation when >>> trying to make a sale. I say - keep that value and introduce a new >>> concept: Being competitive with a PC server solution - >>> NOW! Corporate wants to hear that we can budget and afford this >>> solution - NOW! Shareholders want to hear that we saved money THIS >>> year, not in 3 - 5 years. >>> ----------- >>> >>> The many name changes are just adding insult to injury. But since >>> they're not marketing it properly, positive brand recognition is not >>> there anyway. >>> >>> >>> >>> -mark >>> >>> >>> At 12/7/06 11:59 PM, you wrote: >>>>Way too long to read for the lack of any solution. It starts with a call >>>>to >>>>fight, carries on with a call to fight for an OUTDATED server (AS/400) >>>> and >>>>ends with suggestions for IBM to do something. That does not fly any >>>>more - >>>>we have to get off OUR collective behinds and DO something. IBM needs >>>> OUR >>>>help to keep this platform in OUR world. >>>> >>>>You can't fight a fight for a system that is no longer available for >>>>purchase - that is, an AS/400. While we keep on calling our platform an >>>>AS/400, and still call ourselves AS/400 developers/programmers/people, >>>> we >>>>will remain stuck in the past and die the betamax death. We can write >>>> all >>>>we >>>>want about what IBM should do, but writing does nothing if you are still >>>>writing about AS/400. And this article switches between AS/400 and >>>> System >>>>i >>>>like they are the same thing. If I.T. collectively thinks AS/400 is >>>>outdated, then painting System i with the outdated "AS/400" brush is the >>>>first thing to STOP DOING. >>>> >>>>We work on System i - this is the family of servers which WERE AS/400 >>>>servers, THEN iSeries servers, but are now System i5. You do not buy a >>>> new >>>>AS/400 from IBM - you buy a System i5 server. This is THE most modern >>>>platform on the planet, and if we just moved into the 21st century, we >>>>would >>>>not have to be "fighting the AS/400 fight". >>>> >>>>Fight the System i fight. >>>>AS/400 is our past, not our present. >>>>AS/400 is our heritage, not our future. >>>>AS/400 is dead. Long live the System i. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Neil Palmer" <neilpalmer400mr@xxxxxxxx> >>>>To: "Midrange Systems Technical Discussion" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 10:27 PM >>>>Subject: Saving the System i: Fight Rather Than Switch >>>> >>>> >>>> > Well worth a read: >>>> > >>>> > Saving the System i: Fight Rather Than Switch >>>> > >>>> > http://www.itjungle.com/tfh/tfh120406-story03.html >>>> > >>>> > Neil Palmer, Cambridge, Ontario, Canada >>> >>> -- >>> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing >>> list >>> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, >>> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l >>> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives >>> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. >>> >> >> -- >> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing >> list >> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, >> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l >> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx >> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives >> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. >> > > -- > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing > list > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives > at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. > -- This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
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