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I think the productivity problem noted in the thread , I summarize as "what to do next to get good GUI in a reasonable way" has been addressed by two efforts in "business thinking": Offshoring and 4GL tools/program generators "not like your father's GUI" In other words, the first solution being a copout to I/T and the quickfix, and the second, a realization that the only way to be more productive is to stop re-inventing the wheel at every fork in the road. My favorite picture comparing programming worlds is here: http://www.lansa.com/promos/petshop.htm I am not sure I ever want to understand all the messages that Tomcat can spew from code I did not write or life as a .NET disciple were my world is controlled by MS. But both JAVA and .NET do a very good job a solving some of these problems we all have faced. Just an opinion, Mark
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