RE: Heart Warming Advertising(please read) -- MIDRANGE-L

Booth's observation and your reply remarks made interesting reading. Let me
jot down few points that come to my mind. 

I do not agree with you on the 1(developed countries):24 (Asian countries)
ratio. I have been associated  with the Indian software industry,
specifically the AS400 for many years.  I know  many a companies  who cater
to the needs of companies spread across the globe. And most of the clients
are from USA, Singapore, Europe, Middle East etc.  I myself have worked at
many a client sites across the globe. What I have found is that guys from
the Indian sub continent are good at work and on par with others.

Employee recruitment in our part of the world is a rigorous process. A guy
who gets into the industry has a reasonably good IQ. There is reasonable
amount of technical knowledge too. Rest of the knowledge comes from field
experience.  I do agree that there may be few odd cases who do not perform.
But then we are dealing with human beings and not robots with artificial
intelligence. 

Irrespective of geographic locations on the globe, human beings can perform.
If it were not so then we should have had pre-historic (nomadic) life style
in many a parts of the world. It is not so. As you have rightly pointed out,
we too talk of AS400 and participate in these lists. An odd question like -'
How to read a file' may be from a new entrant to the field. But then forums
don't have any bars. The objective is to provide a platform for knowledge
sharing and to popularise a tool which is our bread and butter. 

The 1:24 ratio applies as far as payment is concerned. But that is only for
the money part of it and not the technical part. Who is to blame here ?? 

Do not forget that  guys from developed countries come to our place in
search of consultants. And the numbers of guys who come here are too
many.... They would not have come here if 24 of us were to replace one
person from the  technical perspective. IBM, Microsoft etc. would never come
here for that.


Vijosh A 
Senior Consultant
Systems & Software 
SEEPZ, Bombay, INDIA.
Email : <vijosha@alfuttaim.co.ae>


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   email@james-w-kilgore.com [SMTP:email@james-w-kilgore.com]
        Sent:   Saturday, December 04, 1999 11:17 AM
        To:     MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
        Subject:        Re: Heart Warming Advertising(please read)

        Booth,

        Your example, although not directly midrange related, does touch
upon
        the topic of outsourceing.  IMO, that is relevant to not only your
and
        my futures, but to the future of software developers regardless of
        geographic position.

        Now I happen to live a stones throw from Seattle where, this week,
the
        WTO (World Trade Organization) has been meeting.

        Passive protesters or anarchists aside, this conference, and this
thread
        does strike the cord of "globalization" in the technological society
the
        developed nations are entering.

        I commented on another thread on dealing with the "hungry".  I never
        said stupid.  It's foolhardy to make the mistake that a person,
        elevating from a dollar a day plus lunch, willing to accept $5/hr
(16 hr
        day) is incapable.

        Taking into account the global population, and that the average
staff
        AS/400 programmer in the US makes $30/hr (plus at least 15% in
        benefits/tax burden) it's not that hard for developing nations to
put
        together a "team" of programmers for the same money.

        The clever one of the team may discover this list and post "how do I
        read a file in RPG", but the fact that the question was posted means
        that the person/team exists.  It's here now.

        Did I stress the word -now- enough?

        OK, maybe not in your neighborhood today, but when? Tomorrow? Next
week?

        IMHO, what has made any nation strong is the strength of the
        individuals.  If I am dedicated and ambitious enough, I can
        create/acquire tools to make my $120/hr cost beneficial.

        Example: you can hire me, and rent my back hoe (that I paid for) for
        $120/hr or you can hire 24 people at $5/hr.  The end result is a
well
        dug ditch.  The difference may be in the time of deliverable.  For a
        business, each day of delay in deliverable is a day's loss in
benefits. 
        Timing is everything.

        Digging ditches?  That example may not make a whole bunch of
difference,
        24 cooks in the pot writing software, well I've had 24 programmers
and
        there's no way on God's earth I would ever let them all work on the
same
        project at the same time!  That's akin to juggling cats :)

        But then again, I've only had to deal with US based programmers.  I
must
        entertain the thought that other cultures -can- have a team of 24 do
my
        job.  Successfully.

        Welcome to the new millennium.





        boothm@earth.goddard.edu wrote:
        > 
        > True, "you get what you pay for," but lets not forget:  $15-$20 an
hour in
        > India is damn good wages.
        > 
        > I competed against the Asian labor market for a while.  I learned
one
        > thing: the workmanship is not that bad and the labor pool ramps up
real
        > fast.  I had a cast iron foundry.  White iron (that means melted,
in the
        > ladle, ready to pour, no labor costs added yet) cost me about
$1.00/pound.
        >  I could buy finished cast iron products on the docks in any U.S.
seaport
        > for $0.11/pound  -  less if I bargained.  So, don't be thinking
that Asian
        > labor will be ineffective and produce bad code.  That
generalization will
        > not be borne out in the marketplace.
        >
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