Re: Web Enabling Applications -- WEB400

I used net.data for many years and loved it. But 2-3 years ago i got scared that it would eventually go the route of the machine 36 (not the 36 environment) and switched to Zend core and then zendserver. It is MUCH better

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 7, 2012, at 4:51 PM, "Allen, Todd" <Todd.Allen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Net.Data is a great tool to web enable applications written on the IBM i system. The drawback is that it is no longer being enhanced.

Use caution with the direct program call interface. It probably won't work when calling a program on a remote system. I'd wrap all your RPG programs in SQL stored procedures and call those using the SQL interface instead. It's more reliable, allows more functionality (ex. return a result set) and allows you to easily expose your RPG programs to other platforms.

Thanks,
Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ala, Michael
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 3:45 PM
To: web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications

Does anybody still use net.data we use it here and perform Direct calls to much of our existing Business Logic

It comes with the iseries, works well, and has a short learning curve

-----Original Message-----
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On Behalf Of web400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 2:36 PM
To: web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: WEB400 Digest, Vol 10, Issue 181

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Web Enabling Applications (Scott Klement)
2. Re: Web Enabling Applications (Allen, Todd)
3. Re: Web Enabling Applications (Bob P. Roche)
4. Re: Web Enabling Applications (Jim Cooper)
5. Re: Web Enabling Applications: Development Shoot-off ? (Paul Holm)
6. Re: Web Enabling Applications: Development Shoot-off ?
(Jim Cooper)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

message: 1
date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:26:36 -0600
from: Scott Klement <web400@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications

Michael,

<vendor response>
Please give our product a try. You can download a 30 day free trial by registering here:
http://www.profoundui.com

We'd be happy to give you an introductory demo of the product (over a "Goto Meeting" session. If that interests you, please contact our sales department.
http://www.profoundlogic.com/contact.rpgsp
</vendor response>

On a more personal note... what I've always wanted for RPG was a "native GUI", and of course, we've been trying to get IBM to do something about that for a long time, to no avail.

Recently, I left my job at Klement's Sausage company, and accepted a position with Profound Logic. The reason I wanted to work for Profound was that their ProfoundUI product does almost _exactly_ what I've always wanted in a native GUI. It has an easy to use screen designer where you drag/drop stuff to design your screen, and you don't need to understand the underlying technology to do so. It's brilliant.

Profound UI uses a web browser as a way of rendering this native UI. So you might call it "web enabling", since it's all done with web technologies.

But, despite that it all uses open web technologies, the paradigm for a native GUI is a bit different from that of a traditional web page.
Native GUI is perfect for in-house applications, or really, business logic in general. The native GUI approach is much more "application like", more like you would have if you designed a native Windows program, or native iPhone app, or native Android... except without being locked into any of these environments -- it runs entirely on IBM i, and just uses the browser to render the screens.

To me, this makes it ideal for in-house applications. Where it's less-than-ideal is when you want something to be picked up by Google and other search engines. (Though, our company also sells a product for that type of app called RPGsp..)

It does, indeed, use JSON under the covers.

So, to me it sounds like a great fit for you. I hope you'll download the trial and give it a try and see if it would be a good fit.

On 12/7/2012 10:55 AM, Michael Ryan wrote:

Ok...wide ranging topic I'm sure, but it's Friday. Here's what I'm

looking

for...opinions, solutions, ideas regarding web enabling (browser

access) to

i applications. A couple of points: The logic on the i will be written
(re-written) to be accessed by a procedure call. I'm pretty sure I

want the

returned data to be in JSON format. I'm obviously concerned about

security

and session state. This application would be for in-house users, not

the

public.

I'm thinking three main middleware paths - PHP, CGI, and vendor
proprietary...others?

Some products/frameworks that I know of are easy CGIDEV2, Renaissance,
Zend, powerEXT..others?

Feel free to contact me off list if desired. I look forward to the

comments.

Thanks!

------------------------------

message: 2
date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:06:29 +0000
from: "Allen, Todd" <Todd.Allen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications

I may be in the minority here but I'd shy away from using CGIDEV2 for any sort of web development. I say minority on this list only. The percentage of all web developers that have used or heard of CGIDEV2 is probably less than .001%. We've found that RPG developers are hard to find. RPG developers that have web experience are even harder to find.
If JSON is a requirement then I'd also be concerned about processing JSON data with RPG. There are plenty of libraries out there for JSON processing but I don't know if you'll find one for RPG.

You could stand up a Linux server running an Apache web server with PHP and connect to your SQL stored procedures on the i fairly easily. There are JSON functions built in to the PHP language. You did not mention Java so I assume that is not an option.

A big consideration for you is the expertise in your organization. That may help drive your decision. If you have access to a lot of RPG developers then CGIDEV2 may be worth a look but keep an eye on the future. That's my biggest hesitation with CGIDEV2.

Thanks,
Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Michael Ryan
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 11:55 AM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications

Ok...wide ranging topic I'm sure, but it's Friday. Here's what I'm looking for...opinions, solutions, ideas regarding web enabling (browser
access) to i applications. A couple of points: The logic on the i will be written
(re-written) to be accessed by a procedure call. I'm pretty sure I want the returned data to be in JSON format. I'm obviously concerned about security and session state. This application would be for in-house users, not the public.

I'm thinking three main middleware paths - PHP, CGI, and vendor proprietary...others?

Some products/frameworks that I know of are easy CGIDEV2, Renaissance, Zend, powerEXT..others?

Feel free to contact me off list if desired. I look forward to the comments.

Thanks!

For More Than 80 Years?Delivering Solutions That Exceed Expectations.

This communication and any transmitted documents are intended to be confidential. If there is a problem with this transmission, please contact the sender. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.

------------------------------

message: 3
date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 13:27:15 -0600
from: "Bob P. Roche" <BRoche@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications

Or you could run PHP directly on your i.

From:
"Allen, Todd" <Todd.Allen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries <web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date:
12/07/2012 01:06 PM
Subject:
Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications
Sent by:
web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

I may be in the minority here but I'd shy away from using CGIDEV2 for
any
sort of web development. I say minority on this list only. The
percentage of all web developers that have used or heard of CGIDEV2 is
probably less than .001%. We've found that RPG developers are hard to
find. RPG developers that have web experience are even harder to find.
If
JSON is a requirement then I'd also be concerned about processing JSON
data with RPG. There are plenty of libraries out there for JSON
processing but I don't know if you'll find one for RPG.

You could stand up a Linux server running an Apache web server with PHP
and connect to your SQL stored procedures on the i fairly easily. There

are JSON functions built in to the PHP language. You did not mention
Java
so I assume that is not an option.

A big consideration for you is the expertise in your organization. That

may help drive your decision. If you have access to a lot of RPG
developers then CGIDEV2 may be worth a look but keep an eye on the
future.
That's my biggest hesitation with CGIDEV2.

Thanks,
Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Michael Ryan
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 11:55 AM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications

Ok...wide ranging topic I'm sure, but it's Friday. Here's what I'm
looking
for...opinions, solutions, ideas regarding web enabling (browser access)

to i applications. A couple of points: The logic on the i will be
written
(re-written) to be accessed by a procedure call. I'm pretty sure I want
the returned data to be in JSON format. I'm obviously concerned about
security and session state. This application would be for in-house
users,
not the public.

I'm thinking three main middleware paths - PHP, CGI, and vendor
proprietary...others?

Some products/frameworks that I know of are easy CGIDEV2, Renaissance,
Zend, powerEXT..others?

Feel free to contact me off list if desired. I look forward to the
comments.

Thanks!

For More Than 80 Years?Delivering Solutions That Exceed Expectations.

This communication and any transmitted documents are intended to be
confidential. If there is a problem with this transmission, please
contact
the sender. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,

or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
--
This is the Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries (WEB400) mailing list
To post a message email: WEB400@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
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------------------------------

message: 4
date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:17:56 +0000
from: Jim Cooper <Jim.Cooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications

For web development I wouldn't worry about finding someone with RPG
skills. In today's world, a web developer needs HTML5, jQuery (ExtJs),
and other web skills. I would be looking for someone with those web
skills. The RPG part of a web application can be taught to anyone very
quickly. The RPG program is just responding to a HTTP request with JSON
data and that is very easy.

Jim Cooper
Program Coordinator
Lambton College
jim.cooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
519-542-7751 ext. 3219

________________________________________
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] on
behalf of Allen, Todd [Todd.Allen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 2:06 PM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications

I may be in the minority here but I'd shy away from using CGIDEV2 for
any sort of web development. I say minority on this list only. The
percentage of all web developers that have used or heard of CGIDEV2 is
probably less than .001%. We've found that RPG developers are hard to
find. RPG developers that have web experience are even harder to find.
If JSON is a requirement then I'd also be concerned about processing
JSON data with RPG. There are plenty of libraries out there for JSON
processing but I don't know if you'll find one for RPG.

You could stand up a Linux server running an Apache web server with PHP
and connect to your SQL stored procedures on the i fairly easily. There
are JSON functions built in to the PHP language. You did not mention
Java so I assume that is not an option.

A big consideration for you is the expertise in your organization. That
may help drive your decision. If you have access to a lot of RPG
developers then CGIDEV2 may be worth a look but keep an eye on the
future. That's my biggest hesitation with CGIDEV2.

Thanks,
Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Michael Ryan
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 11:55 AM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications

Ok...wide ranging topic I'm sure, but it's Friday. Here's what I'm
looking for...opinions, solutions, ideas regarding web enabling (browser
access) to i applications. A couple of points: The logic on the i will
be written
(re-written) to be accessed by a procedure call. I'm pretty sure I want
the returned data to be in JSON format. I'm obviously concerned about
security and session state. This application would be for in-house
users, not the public.

I'm thinking three main middleware paths - PHP, CGI, and vendor
proprietary...others?

Some products/frameworks that I know of are easy CGIDEV2, Renaissance,
Zend, powerEXT..others?

Feel free to contact me off list if desired. I look forward to the
comments.

Thanks!

For More Than 80 Years?Delivering Solutions That Exceed Expectations.

This communication and any transmitted documents are intended to be
confidential. If there is a problem with this transmission, please
contact the sender. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
--
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------------------------------

message: 5
date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 11:32:19 -0800
from: Paul Holm <pholm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications: Development Shoot-off
?

Michael/all,

I'm sure you get a lot of responses. Development tools/technologies is
being debated heavy on other groups concurrently as well.

I propose the following, you or some neutral 3rd party, supply a
"requirements spec" for your IBM i web application needs. The spec
should be somewhat representative of a typical IBM i shop. The spec
also includes some "sample" data in a save file.

You let vendors or other approaches create solutions against your spec
and sample data. This would provide a huge service to the ENTIRE i
community by being able to compare/contrast solutions.

-Paul Holm

------------------------------

message: 6
date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:35:25 +0000
from: Jim Cooper <Jim.Cooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications: Development Shoot-off
?

I think Paul has something here. Great idea.

Jim Cooper
Program Coordinator
Lambton College
jim.cooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
519-542-7751 ext. 3219

________________________________________
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] on
behalf of Paul Holm [pholm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 2:32 PM
To: web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Web Enabling Applications: Development Shoot-off ?

Michael/all,

I'm sure you get a lot of responses. Development tools/technologies is
being debated heavy on other groups concurrently as well.

I propose the following, you or some neutral 3rd party, supply a
"requirements spec" for your IBM i web application needs. The spec
should be somewhat representative of a typical IBM i shop. The spec
also includes some "sample" data in a save file.

You let vendors or other approaches create solutions against your spec
and sample data. This would provide a huge service to the ENTIRE i
community by being able to compare/contrast solutions.

-Paul Holm

--
This is the Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries (WEB400) mailing list
To post a message email: WEB400@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/web400
or email: WEB400-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at http://archive.midrange.com/web400.