TIOBE? That really is not a great way to guage what is being used. The
best way to guage what is being used is by talking to developers. I spend
a considerable amount of time talking with and reading about we
entrapenuers and thier technology stacks. The largest sites on the web
are using PHP. Period. There is a growing movement towards Ruby on Rails
and some Python growth, but PHP is by far still the leader. Notice that
RPG is listed as number 15 and is up from number 29. Do you really think
that RPG development has ramped up THAT much in the last month? I'm
skeptical too ;)
This all boils back down to the old addage of the right tool for the job.
Just because Java can do embedded and PHP can't doesn't mean that Java is
more ready for the enterprise. You can write an enterprise system in
anything... try it in LISP, I'm sure it can be done. Does Java have some
advantages over PHP in certain use cases? Yes. But beings that this is
the Web400 List... I would much rather have a PHP/RPGLE stack than a
Java/RPGLE stack. I don't know enough about CGI programming to make a
call on it. Looked kind of clunky when I first checked it out, but that
was a couple years ago and I am a much better programmer now (so it might
not be that bad).
I can assure you that there are MRP systems written in PHP. But if you
want to get nit picky, I rather it be written in C, or better yet
Assembler because it performs better than Java (I mean, that's the
argument against PHP right?).
So lets put sweeping generalizations to rest and focus our efforts on
looking at the right tool for the job. If your shop is a Java shop, so
beit, use it, love it, embrace it. That goes for any language. They have
their pitfalls, all of them.
Is Oracle going to try and suck as much money out of Java as it can? Yep.
Is it going to have any impact on IBM i shops running Java on Websphere?
Probably not any time soon if ever. By the way, Oracle begged the ASF to
come back... <
http://news.techworld.com/applications/3253230/oracle-asks-apache-to-come-back-to-java-community-process/>
So before we throw Oracle to the wolves (I don't trust them as much as the
next guy), lets see how things play out. Knee jerk reactions get you
right where this thread has gone.
Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777
Joe Pluta <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
12/14/2010 07:12 AM
Please respond to
Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries <web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Subject
Re: [WEB400] The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee
On 12/14/2010 12:16 AM, Mike Pavlak wrote:
Well, Joe, we'll have to agree to disagree. I see PHP as a VERY
Enterprise oriented language.
I'm not sure how many enterprise applications you've designed, Mike, but
PHP is not a language I'd use to write any business logic in. If you
recommend it for, say, MRP processing, then you are either very, very
wrong or a salesman. PHP as a front end to RPG, perhaps, but then
you've learned two languages to do one thing: present business logic to
the web. Anyway, we've been over this ground already. We all know you
work for Zend and everybody knows what I advocate, so our opinions are
already pretty much Open Source. :)
And so do companies like Dr. Dobbs Journal, GE, eBay, Disney and many
more. I just wish I understood the axe you have to grind about PHP. You
saying it "ain't" an Enterprise programming language is a disservice, poor
grammar and a lie. But, maybe enterprise is in the eye of the beholder and
you too are entitled to your opinions regardless of how flawed.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10453213-16.html
http://www.infoq.com/articles/enterprise-php
http://www.cio.com/article/197152/PHP_s_Enterprise_Strengths_and_Weaknesses_Take_2
Gimme a break. That first one is talking about Perl in the enterprise
fer goshsakes! Even that very article says that Python has more jobs
than PHP! So, by your logic (that of using the media to make your
decisions) everyone should dump PHP and go to Python! Which actually
seems to be the consensus of the "cool kids" these days.
If you notice, I said Java was too complex for me. The RPG community
adopting PHP is saying that Java was too complex for the masses. I wish I
had hard numbers to tell you Java workload from PHP workload on IBM i. But
I do not believe anyone has those hard statistics. Plus let's check back
in another 10 years so PHP has a little more traction. IBM spent untold
millions shoving Java down the throats of thousands of IBM i developers
for the better part of 15 years. Some swallowed the Kool-Aid and are
turning out some pretty cool work, God bless. Others adopted CGI, tooling
solutions and Net.Data technologies. Many ran off to Microsoft and still
others clung to their green screens and held out for another alternative.
Well, PHP seems to be gaining some serious traction. It is a VERY viable
alternative and ironically you are the only one I see in our community
stating categorically that PHP is not for Enterprise. Please, I would
like to hear as many as possible step !
fo!
PHP is gaining some serious traction? Not according to TIOBE.
According to the December 2010 numbers, PHP continues to drop in
popularity, right along with Visual Basic and Perl. In fact, unless
trends change PHP will shortly be overtaken by both Python and C#. And
this is not from Java advocates.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Oh yeah - what's the number one language on that chart? Yeah, I thought
so.
Joe
midrange.com
