Re: PHP Strategy and opportunity

Pete Helgren wrote:

When I began to investigate new coding opportunities in
2001/2002, ASP (.net) dropped off the list because MS was charging for
everything and changing everything (daily it seemed).

Pete you certainly must have been on the ball? ASP.NET v1.0 was released in
January 2002, so this was a very quick decision on your part!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASP.NET

Maurice O'Prey (I won't mention .NET if you don't :-)



-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Pete Helgren
Sent: 13 December 2010 18:55
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] PHP Strategy and opportunity

I wonder about what would be an "easy on-ramp" these days. I started
looking outside the box in 1993 and there wasn't much on the AS/400 at
that time. Some ODBC connections to a VB or Access application was
about all I could attempt.

From there I got fully engaged in ASP on IIS. Man, that code was UGLY
with both HTML and vb script interspersed in the same file. Nasty! I
also checked out PHP early and saw mostly the same stuff: code, HTML,
script all smooshed together. I stuck with fat client for quite a
while. When I began to investigate new coding opportunities in
2001/2002, ASP (.net) dropped off the list because MS was charging for
everything and changing everything (daily it seemed). The PHP scripts I
downloaded for ideas stilled looked ugly to me and I drifted into Java
because it could run on i AND because the Freemarker template framework
(and another app framework called Niggle) looked *just* like the 5250
DSPF/RPG coding I always had done. So, in 2002 I pretty much adopted
Java and have stuck with it as my secondary language.

The good news is that the OO focus has helped me with all the other
languages I deal with: PHP5, Ruby and JRuby, EGL, Smalltalk and the
jQuery javascript library. OO is the standard focus of most languages
these days so sooner or later you have to get the basic concepts in your
head because you *will* deal with an OO language if you are writing web
apps (IMHO).

I guess it depends *when* you took the onRamp to a new language. In my
case, Java was a very easy transition for me, even coming from RPG,
because of the tools that abstracted most of the gnarly coding away. I
think you can do that with PHP5 as well; Write procedural code or write
OO *OR* use a framework that makes the coding transition easier. I
don't *think* PHP has a leg up in this area but it has been over 8 years
now that I have "cheated" on my first love RPG and embraced another
language.

YMMV.

Pete Helgren
Value Added Software, Inc
www.asaap.com
www.opensource4i.com


On 12/13/2010 11:18 AM, Mike Pavlak wrote:

I am creating a new subject line here as we are moving well off topic of

ASF.

I agree with what you are saying. This is why I see PHP as a smart

language for RPG developers to consider. I try not to get into religious
wars about this language does this vs. that. By now we all know that each
language has advantages and disadvantages. But the ability to swing between
procedural and OO development gives RPG developers the kind of "on ramp"
that they have been looking for since IBM started their burger flipping
campaign for Java. By starting in the procedural model of PHP and growing
into the OO model, RPG developers benefit from the kind of learning curve
they enjoyed when Subfiles came about. In other words, be productive now
and continue to grow at your own speed. We all learn at a different pace
and I have seen many in the IBM i community working with very successful
projects in a variety of technologies. Some jumped on the Java bandwagon,
some Net.Data and some to M$. Having choices is what it is all about.
Picking a solution that works for you and your company is the key. And I
admit that religious wars about computer languages can be fun...in the
correct context. ;-)

Long live open source!

Regards,

Mike

mike.p@xxxxxxxx Cell: (408)679-1011 Office: (630)928-1476

Zend Server for IBM i avilable at

http://www.zend.com/en/products/server/zend-server-5-new-ibmi

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of Aaron Bartell

Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 11:52 AM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

I am wondering if it had something to do with when PHP started including

OO.

Though I thought that was way back in PHP3.

FWIW, being able to do non-OO and OO in a single language has been good

for

my usage of PHP. Though most of my "PHP OO" has been modular programming
more than anything (i.e. separate out related code components into
appropriately named PHP objects).

Aaron Bartell
www.MowYourLawn.com/blog
www.OpenRPGUI.com
www.SoftwareSavesLives.com



On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Mike Pavlak<mike.p@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

I am not familiar with the "battle" either. Joe, can you site some
references from which you are referring?

Regards,

Mike

mike.p@xxxxxxxx Cell: (408)679-1011 Office: (630)928-1476

Zend Server for IBM i avilable at
http://www.zend.com/en/products/server/zend-server-5-new-ibmi


-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 7:42 AM
To: 'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WEB400] The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

I am not familiar with the PHP4 versus PHP5 battle. What in particular

are

you referring to?

(and for those wondering why the "claim to be Java" is so important, it

is

to avoid the little nasty corner cases which usually bite you in
production.
Passing the TCK (allowing you to claim to be Java) catches most of

these).

Proof: Look at OpenJDK - tiny issues in the corners which all in all

cause

the instinctive reflex to any problem to be "install Sun JDK and see if

it

goes away". It usually do.

/Thorbjørn

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Joe Pluta
Sent: 10. december 2010 20:23
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I should have been more specific: this
limtitation prevents Harmony from running on an appliance and claiming to
be Java compatible.

It's really a tempest in a teapot, at least for now. As Thorbjørn noted,
SE 6 is perfectly adequate for anything coming down the pike. If Oracle
does indeed force a fork between "official" SE 7 and the current open
source JVM, it will be interesting to see how the open source community
rects - will new libraries use only SE 6 capabilities? Oracle is in
danger of turning Java into PHP - the PHP4 vs PHP5 battle is still not
pretty.

Joe

I don't agree with Joe that Oracle doesn't want Java running on embedded
devices. Yes Oracles bread and butter is on the server side, but the
server
side usually talks to some kind of device on the user end.

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