Re: JSF/EGL datatable positioning question

Bob,



You've done a remarkable job of articulating what IBM is trying to
achieve with EGL, and IBM's rationale for investing in it. The
problem
for me is that every time IBM comes out with a new J2EE-based Web
services technology, or promotes something like PHP, the more
difficult it is
for me to articulate the advantages of ILE based Web services.



I'm fairly up to speed on Web 2.0 technologies and have an exceptional
framework for supporting them. In fact, I've never seen anything on
the Internet that offers a comparable level of interactivity and
performance that I get from a browser-based client, supported by
ILE-based
servers on the back-end.


My favorite model for database inquiry and maintenance combines a data
table with a list of records in one inline frame paired with a view of
the complete record in another inline frame immediately above. A
splitter bar separates the frames, which a user may drag to resize the
relative height of each frame.



People can use the mouse or arrow keys to navigate the list of records.
When a new record is selected in the list, the detail view is
automatically updated in the other frame. The Web 2.0 interactions
with the
server consume about 2 milliseconds of CPU time for the complete
request-response cycle to retrieve and display the next record,
including time
used by the Apache server plus time used by the ILE application. The
server produces a response faster than the browser can consume it
(update the screen).



If a user presses and holds down an arrow key, the highlight bar moves
from row to row in the list at a rate of about 20 rows per second, and
the server is flooded with the same number of requests per second. If
10 users are doing the same thing at the same time, then the server
may
be flooded with about 200 requests per second, but the interface is so
efficient that I can offer applications with this level of interaction
and not worry about performance degradation caused by a high level of
activity.



Consequently, we're entering an era where users are getting a level of
performance comparable to a desktop application and a desktop
database,
even though the database and majority of application code are hosted

on the server. The performance of record validation, inserts,
updates,
and deletes is nearly equivalent to 5250 interfaces, even though the
client is a browser, and the request-response cycle is going through
the
HTTP server.



I haven't been following Microsoft's Silverlight project. Thank you
for the link. I see that Silverlight is Microsoft's answer to Adobe's
Flash plug-in. I've been evaluating a Flash-based email client at
www.gowebtop.com which offers a rich user interface, but frankly my
HTML /
Web 2.0 interfaces offer much snappier and more reliable client-server
interactions. This is where the performance of ILE shows, and people
notice the difference.



You say that RPG is declining. That's a shame because that's what I'm
using to develop new highly-interactive Web applications. While I don't expect IBM to have the same priorities as me, I expect IBM to use and offer training and promote technologies that run under the System i native virtual machine, including RPG.


My reason for posting this message is not to promote my framework, but
rather to encourage IBM and others to keep faith in the System i native
virtual
machine, and to look for ways to extend it's use. It's an incredible
asset.


Nathan M. Andelin









----- Original Message ----

From: Bob Cancilla <bob.cancilla@xxxxxxxxx>

To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries <web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:47:16 AM

Subject: Re: [WEB400] JSF/EGL datatable positioning question





Nathan,



JSF is just one part of the technology that is emerging for the web

today.

If you have not go out to www.microsoft.com/silverlight download and

install the plugin and refresh the page. Look at the carousel widget

they

implement on the page. This is similar to the work that Apple has been

doing in their latest OS X build (Leopard). Also take a look at AJAX

and

interactive web pages. The interaction between the server and the

browser

is rapidly moving to become a level playing field with that of the rich

client (GUI) apps. Nathan the web has progressed with "Web 2.0" way

beyond

a static web page or a web page with a form and simple 5250 like

interaction

with the terminal. Virtually all of these new interactive widgets or

the

AJAX interactions with the web pages are heavily dependent on complex

JavaScript including abstractions that locate and identify the widget

triggering an event.



JSF is not and has never been about page layout. It has always been

about

an attempt to provide a more robust interface between the web page and

the

server -- look carefully at the "codebehind" code file that backs up

every

JSF page. Also look at how JavaScript is embedded in JSF widgets to

the

point that JavaScript, Java, and HTML become indistinguishable in the

resulting web page. Consider also that JSF is totally extensible.



Ok, all of this is great, but extremely complex and tedious to

implement.

Tooling is the key to this. Tools and facilities that generate the

complex

structures and interactions for you are the key saving you countless

hours

of painfully detailed work. Nathan its a case where you can most

certainly

do all of this by hand, but why on earth would you want to and more

importantly why would your employer allow you to waste the time when a

tool

can do it for you?