Re: Opinions Wanted

<Chuckle>Joe, you sound like the Video Professor!  Will you refund the
shipping and handling?</chuckle>

Your statement explaining the benefits of WebSphere have nothing to do
with WebSphere; I can accomplish the same thing with CGIDEV2.  We'll
agree browser-based applications have merit and we don't need to get
into quantification.  So, the only question is how we get the
application to a browser.

I'd think tools and utilities for managing JSP's should be high on
Toronto's list.

-reeve 


On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:03:56 -0600, Joe Pluta
<joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > From: Reeve
> >
> > WebSphere may be IBM's Grand Design but the learning curve is steep,
> 
> You haven't had the right teacher.  I teach RPG programmers how to build
> web apps in an hour and a half.  I teach architectures in a week.  The
> amount of Java required to write a web application is roughly equivalent
> to the amount of CL required to build an ERP application.
> 
> 
> > it requires lots of power,
> 
> That depends.  Java runs better on a 270 than a 170, and better on an i5
> than an iSeries.  The JVM needs dedicated memory; 512MB is pretty much
> the minimum.  So an underpowered iSeries isn't going to like running
> WebSphere.
> 
> If you're absolutely up against the wall on hardware, you can put a
> Linux box on the side of your machine for about $1000.  Of course, that
> means you need to know how to run Linux and if you're complaining about
> learning a couple hundred lines of Java then you'd probably have a
> seizure learning Linux.
> 
> 
> > and I have yet to see a clear, concise
> > statement of WebSphere's current benefits
> 
> WebSphere provides browser-based access to business logic written in
> RPG.  There's your current benefits.  Browser-based access to allow you
> to move into the future (not to mention eliminating the interactive
> tax), while at the same time 95% or more of your code is written in RPG,
> leveraging your current skill set.  And you can sit at that combination
> of components until you retire.  BUT, if you're so inclined, you can
> also move ahead into more and more Java, taking advantage of existing
> libraries that let you do graphics and PDFs and email and whatever else
> you might want to do.  But you don't have to.
> 
> 
> > Many of us don't have the
> > resources,  inclination, or background to struggle with the WebSphere
> > infrastructure.  Any moderately competent RPG programmer can learn a
> > little HTML (or find some high school kind to do it) and put together
> > a decent business application in a couple of days.
> 
> Any competent RPG programmer can learn enough Java to write a web
> application.  Hell, you can buy my WDSC book and have it walk you
> through an entire application from the ground up.  If you can't do this,
> it's not the language's fault.
> 
> 
> > I suggest the following: formal support for CGIDEV2, additional
> > functionality for CGIDEV2, getting VisualAge RPG up to V5R3,
> > application development tools tailored to support the strengths of
> > i5/OS, a utility to create workable HTML from DDS (use the Webfacing
> > engine), and a Red Book with lots of practical (meaning "not written
> > by lab folks") examples designed to illustrate principles, concepts,
> > and approaches (two examples of useful topics: how to redesign/rewite
> > a multi-format inquiry screen program to work in the Web enviroment
> > and how to redesign/rewrite a program to manage a persistent
> > connection for an update program, this one bring very important).
> 
> JavaServer Pages are the DDS for HTML.  If you've ever been at one of my
> sessions, you'll hear me explain it.  A display file is a bunch of
> literals on a page with holes in it for the data, while a JavaServer
> Page is a bunch of HTML on a page with holes in it for the data.  You
> fill a buffer and write it to a display file, you fill a bean and send
> it to a JSP.
> 
> IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
> 
> Like I say, buy my WDSC book and you will be walked through an entire
> application.  Then, if you still don't think you can put together your
> own architecture, hire me for a few days and I'll personally walk you
> through the entire thing.
> 
> Joe
> 
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