I wrote that message this AM, I have no idea why it took 12 hours to hit
the list.

Anyway, I sent it before your most recent exchange with David.  I agree
with some of what you say, and all I ever attempt to do is provide people
with an explanation of what Struts is.

My main disagreement is that many of your statements seem to be based on
the Struts JSP tags, and they just are not what Struts is.  The thing I
find most ironic is that you keep talking about JSP Model II, which I agree
is the best architecture, but that is what Struts is -- an implementation
of that architecture.  I do not think I have ever read a book or article
that talks about JSP Model II that does not mention Struts.

That is not to say you cannot implement JSP Model II without Struts.  It is
just that the entire point of Struts is to allow you to implement that
architecture and you keep slamming it.

There is nothing wrong with using scriptlets with Struts, you can do
whatever you want for the view layer, including not using JSP at all.  As
you are well aware, the whole point is just not to use scriptlets to do
things like run SQL queries or things like that.  If you want to do loops
or conditions with scriptlets instead of JSTL or the Struts Logic tags that
is fine.


      To:   "'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'" <web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
      Subject:    RE: [WEB400] Struts
"Joe Pluta" <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
10/10/2003 06:21 PM
Please respond to Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries          <font

> From: Mark Phippard
> I normally just monitor this list on the Archives, but I felt
compelled to
> subscribe so I can post a response on this Struts question.
> Joe, some of your responses show that you do not really know what
> is.

Mark, did you read all of my responses before you started whacking me?
I know full well what Struts is.  However, the Struts advocates always
say (as David did) that Struts is better than JSP/servlet.  The
Controller architecture by itself works with JSP and scriptlets - it's
not until you attach a specific taglib that you replace JSP.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue about it.  You use Struts, great, but
there at least a dozen competing technologies.  I just get tired of
hearing people say that Struts provides MVC architecture for JSP/servlet
technology.  That's not true.  JSP Model II provided that long before
Struts, and Struts is simply one guy's implementation of an

It's not a standard.  It's not a technology.  It's not an architecture.
It's one man's implementation.  And there are better (and worse) ones
out there.

> It allowed me to easily
> develop a "Model" that can be used in any Java application, regardless
> whether Struts is involved.

Me, I just leave the whole Struts part out completely!  Anyway, we'll
see.  Lots of people use alternate techniques, and we'll see what


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