RE: Re: Modify the IE Browser

Hmmm, maybe I misunderstood your post.

I was trying to understand why folks wanted to take over the browser ("I am 
developing an application that opens a new
full screen browser window with no toolbars, scrollbars, menu bar, etc.") as 
Peter wanted to do with his application for
his shop folks.  I had asked why someone would do that... I am interested 
because I am really opposed to it and I wanted
to see why others felt it necessary to take control away from the users control 
of the browser.

In your reply, it sounded like you supported this and you seemed to indicate 
you support this technique as neccessary
and required for Intranet-business applications.  My response was it was 
neither required nor necessary for any
applications, intranet or otherwise.  In my organization, if you turned off 
that stuff, you would not be able to promote
your stuff to production, as it is a violation of documented standards.  It is 
our contention that applications that do
not support things like scrollbars, toolbars, menu bars, etc. are neither 
robust nor customizable.

> Or let's take an item maintenance application.  There are three panels
> of data, one after the other.  The user may be able to switch between
> panels, but until they either commit the transaction or end it, they
> can't do anything else.  How is this not "robust" or "customizable"?

They might need to go other places *while* doing the item maintenance 
application.  They may leave, come back, anything,
on any screen.  I do it myself with on-line banking.  It is not robust because 
it won't allow them to leave and come
back.  I've seen some sites even try to recover your session if it timed out 
before you got back.  If you have turned
off the scroll bars, menu bars, etc. you have not let the user customize 
his/her environment. I don't have to go through
your panels 1-2-3... I can go 1-4-5-6-5-4- 1-2-8-7-8- 2-3.

Don't lock me into a set of screens.  If I leave, let me come back if I come 
back before the timeout.  Don't change my
browser.  the configuration of the browser is in user space, not developer 
space.  If I don't come back, let me know my
session has died and I have to start over.  I'm ok with that....

> Control of a flow of a business application does not equal "need" to
> control over the UI.  Facts not in evidence, your honor.

You don't need to control my UI to get me to come back.   I'll come back on my 
own or take the consequences.  the flow
is maintained.  If I type the URL for page three, it'll either fail the 
validation because I didn't enter the right
stuff or tell me I'm timed out.  Should send me back to page one.... Who cares 
"How" I got here... so long as I am here
with the right data.  Heck, what if you allowed the data to be passed on the 
URL, instead of through the forms.  Fedex
does this with their lookup.  I can skip the entry pages if I hand enter the 
URL parm. How'd want to do that??? I would
when I send an email to my customers telling them their shipment is on it's way.

> They have that choice!  It's called the "exit" button, just like in any
> 5250 application.  I'm really confused here.

I want the choice to leave and come back, or open a new browser window, change 
my scroll bars, url, anything, jump to
the last page (if I provide the data), without having to do anything like 
pressing an Exit button. Or going through some
linear modal dialog.

If I misunderstood you, sorry.  I'd still want to know why folks take over 
users' browsers.

dan