"WDSCI-L" <wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote on 03/28/2017 03:05:40 PM:
----- Message from Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx> on Tue, 28 Mar
2017 14:02:38 -0400 -----




Re: [WDSCI-L] Shortcuts Indent/Unindent

On 3/28/2017 1:10 PM, John Yeung wrote:
I deliberately used the phrase 'seem a bit clunky' because many
seem to have a mental bobble when trying to use RDi. In particular,
they expect RDi to act like Word, or some other Windows app. RDi is
Word with an accent; it is its own unique, individual thing.

Well, I'll quibble with Word as the exemplar here, because
statistically no people use Word as a programming editor. But your
point is equally (or better) made inserting almost any programming
editor that runs in Windows. Perhaps most to the point: "many people
have a mental bobble when using RDi because they expect LPEX to act
like Eclipse's editor for Java".

Thus 'Word, or some other Windows app'.

Indeed, I think his point is different applications use different
keystrokes to do things. I'm sure they all have a historical reason.
(Although I never really did see the logic in some of the keystrokes for
Wordstar, but I digress.) I can see the logic of Ctrl+C for copy and we're
all pretty much used to Ctrl+V for paste, but what's the logic? I think
it's simply because V is a next-door neighbor to C and it's kind of like
the carrot used in proofreading to signify insertion of text. (But it is
upside-down for that.)

I admit I'm in that group of people. I do keep forgetting that LPEX
has a long history. I also keep forgetting that people are going to
use RDi to work on whatever RPG code is on their system, and for a
very high percentage of RDi users, that is going to necessarily
include some fixed-format code, which by its nature isn't well suited
for the same editing techniques as typically used for C, Pascal, Java,

Well said.

RDi has several ways to select text.

Here is one area that I am not convinced has to be the way it is in
LPEX. I believe stream and line selection could be unified.

I never thought to check/place an RFE. Several are possible:
1) Use Tab to indent a selection, similar to Alt-F8. Vice versa with
shift-tab Alt-F7.
2) Allow Alt-F7/8 with Stream selection.

To remove the selection, Alt-U

So, I take it you have to use Alt+U to remove a stream selection as

No, stream selections go away if I Use a cursor key.

since it's really just the same kind of selection, arrived at
via different keys?

Line and Stream are not the same kind of selection arrived at via
different keystrokes. They are distinct 'modes' of selection, arrived
at via different keystrokes.

If the answer is "no, line and stream selection are different after
all, but only one can be active at a time, and stream selection
doesn't require Alt+U" then I am thinking it's a shame that the two
selection modes aren't truly the same thing. But I think I prefer this
second answer, because it embraces and accentuates the difference
between line and stream, and smooths the workflow for stream selection
(which I suspect would overwhelmingly be the selection method of
choice for Windows natives).

Perhaps some/many youngsters (which I have to remind myself before my
children do, that I am no longer even close to qualifying as a youngster)
are MS-Windows natives, but lots of us were programming long before
MS-Windows gained ascendency.

Perhaps a little further illumination on the benefits of block selection
would help to demonstrate that there is profit and benefit to the

*With stream selection, you mark a chunk of text, copy it to the ethereal
clipboard with whatever means you prefer (clicking an icon, Ctrl+C,
Ctrl+Insert, right-click and copy, etc.), move to where you want the copy
and then paste (again with a plethora of ways to do this).

*With block selection, you mark the desired text, move to where you want
it, and ALt+C to paste it. It saves a step. As I said earlier, Windows
didn't come along with Ctrl+C, desk rodents (aka mice), etc. for many
years after I started working on computers. So I'm very much oriented to
using the keyboard. I prefer not to reach for a mouse to click an icon do
much else. (But I will admit there are times and functions where the mouse
is powerful and efficient.)

There are maybe a dozen block functions available. Some may work with
stream selection. But when I learned CODE/400, I was taught block
selection and I've always used it since. There is a programmer in our shop
who pretty much uses nothing but the SEU line commands. Not my cup of tea,
but it works for her.

I don't know if Buck said this first for sure, but I'll give him credit as
I really appreciate his contributions. I like the way expresses stuff:
- It's not religion, use what works for you.
It used to drive me crazy to see someone repeated pressing cursor keys one
position at a time to move the cursor and do something, but I've learned
to let people work how they're comfortable. I would rather fight for using
IBM i than nitpicking with how someone does things.

But I will argue that one could probably be more productive if they learn
to use the force--umm, I mean full functionality of the editor. The line
commands used to be flaky, but I think they've become more stable. I don't
know since I don't use them. But most of all, I find that "a man convinced
against his will is of the same opinion still."

(BTW John, Please accept my apology if I was offensive in my earlier post
about being disingenuous. I really don't think that's you. I appreciate
your candor and your contributions to other midrange.com lists--not to
belittle your posts here either.)

Michael Quigley
Computer Services
The Way International

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