Re: Technology refresh enhancements for free-form statements -- WDSCI-L

We use a different change management system, so I don't remember how
Turnover handles library lists. However, I use a "Connection" for each of
my different library list requirements. That way, my library list matches
the change management environment.

From: Ken Killian <kkillian@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio
Client for System i & iSeries" <wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 10/10/2013 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Technology refresh enhancements for
free-form statements
Sent by: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

Vern,

Yes! Cool!

I am a Turnover Administrator at my company. I have one Developer who has
to do updates/customization to a vendor package. We have a turnover
application defined for the library-list. He was asking me about the
different library-lists...

So, on the Turnover Work-List, you are doing Right-Click, and "Compile".
When I do that I only get return errors, not the lines with errors...

I am trying to get this developer to use Rational Developer with the
Turnover Plug-in. and he is going to be asking me about the library-list
for his different applications...

I was going to recommend to him, that he call CL-programs from the view:
Command log. And that way he could easily on the fly adjust his
library-list. His different applications have many different library-list.
Sadly, it is sort of complicated. Maybe I can write a CL program to pass
the Turnover application to set the library-List to the Turnover
application. That way the library List will be set up properly!

-Ken Killian-

-----Original Message-----
From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Vernon Hamberg
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 12:06 PM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client for
System i & iSeries
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Technology refresh enhancements for free-form
statements

Ken

The error list shows up when using the RSE compile options - it doesn't
when compiling with Turnover - I'm used to that, since it manages the
library list nicely, putting my development library at the top, or
reasonably near, anyhow.

So it's a config issue with Turnover - outside of Turnover, all works as
you describe.

And I love having those errors easily available.

I also like to do compiles immediately (interactively).

Seems we're on the same basic track, eh?

Cheers
Vern

On 10/10/2013 10:23 AM, Ken Killian wrote:

Vern,

I compile in my batch running for Rational Developer.
(I think the background jobs runs in subsystem: QUSRWRK Job: QRWTSRVR)

Windows>preferences>Remote Systems>IBM i>Command Execution --> UNCHECK

"Compile in Batch"

For regular Compiles Ctrl+shift+C, my Error listing ALWAYS pops up.
Even if I close down that View: "Error List". <Joy Joy>

For i-Projects, I change it here:

Windows>preferences>iProjects>Build and Compile --> UNCHECK "Run

compiles as batch jobs"

Basically, I get immediate feedback on my compiles, normally in 5-30

seconds! Depending of the size of the program being compiled!

Just thought you might want to try playing with those settings. Just to

see if that works for you!

:)

I did notice in my "work with compile Commands" that I have the "OPTION

(*EVENTF)" on all my compile commands. I think they were added there by
default. Because I don't remember adding that option...

When I compile inside my library, I use the Rational Developer Compiler,

not the Turnover Compile option. Just use to that...

Anyway, you just might have a setting wrong, if your error list does NOT

automatically pop-up!

<grin>

-Ken Killian-

-----Original Message-----
From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Vernon Hamberg
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:52 AM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client
for System i & iSeries
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Technology refresh enhancements for free-form
statements

Yeah, I was surprised not to have got the error listing. Then I looked at

the create commands - no *EVENTF there. No idea why - someone either took
it off, or it was never there - I forget when that option became available.

Not worth time to worry about history too much, right? Just try to have

things brought up to speed, now that we can take advantage of them.

I do see that *EVENTF was there at V3R2 - yes, I have links to InfoCenter

or AS400 Publications back to V3R2.

Vern

On 10/10/2013 8:33 AM, Ken Killian wrote:

Strange, I have been use the Turnover Plug-in with WDSC 6.0/7.0 and

RDI/RDP 7.5/8.0/8.5 and always got the error listing to pop up on compiles!

Now, I have my compiles run immediate, rather than submit it off to

batch to run in separate job. Being using Turnover for approx. 20-years!
Love it! It has a learning curve, just like Rational Developer. I
personally have found the Turnover support to be exceptional for me!

-Ken Killian-

-----Original Message-----
From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Vernon Hamberg
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:11 AM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio
Client for System i & iSeries
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Technology refresh enhancements for free-form
statements

Ken

Your favorites are among mine, as well. Finding errors this way is
much easier than F15 option 2 and Enter - then searching for *ERR -
although that's a very cool feature of SEU, I must admit. And I use
it whenever I can't get the error list in RDi - turns out we don't
have
OPTION(*EVENTF) on our Turnover type code commands, for the most part -

we have had Turnover here for upwards of 20 years.

I'm beginning to really like the hyperlinks in v9 - and even Alt-Left

and Alt-Right to move around - changes in Eclipse can drive me crazy, but
the new stuff is looking good.

Good luck on your presentation!

Vern

On 10/10/2013 7:03 AM, Ken Killian wrote:

Thanks Jon!

Hopefully in 2-weeks or so, I will get a chance to demo during the

lunch hour in a conference room with a projector...

Very glad to hear that you ALSO hear all sort of Excuses! I am NOT
ALONE! <Big Smile>

My two biggest advantages to using Rational Developer is the Error-list

on Compiles & the outline View!

Of course my time is limited to 1-hour. So, not a lot of time...

-Ken Killian-

-----Original Message-----
From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jon Paris
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 5:15 PM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio
Client for System i & iSeries
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Technology refresh enhancements for free-form
statements

Don't "Dumb it down" too much - but the stuff that usually most

impresses (and that the SEU'ers can't argue with):

Start with running a compile and demonstrate how quickly you can get to

the line in question. Personally I'd make sure "Insert selected" is the
option for the messages because it puts some people off when they see a
whole bunch of messages on the screen 'cos they don't realize they will go
away.

Show them that when you make a change the error(s) are ticked as

handled.

Make sure one error is a data type mismatch and then use hover to show

the field definitions.

Using the same field (perhaps) go to Outline and show all of the field

references - and highlight where it was defined and which lines actually
changed the field.

All of those are slow/difficult/impossible in SEU. And all are things

that you frequently have to do.

The only other one that is a biggie for me is the time saved by not

debugging commented out code lines. But if your shop uses one of the
"colorizers" they will just shoot that down.

The big thing is to do things they can't do quickly but can't argue

that they need to do it.

About 40% of our business is training people in RDi - trust me I have

heard every excuse under the sun and these are my go-to demos.

On 2013-10-09, at 2:42 PM, Ken Killian <kkillian@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

You need to reframe the discussion.
Why are you happy that 75% of your staff are less productive than

they could be?

Good Point!

Why don't you make the .Net developers use Notepad - that would be

cheaper.

Already purchase an 3-year contract. It is a must have for the Dot
Net people!<LOL> Another Excellent Point! However!

Etc. etc.
You need to prove that that your productivity is increased because
of the tooling. Possibly even by doing a side-by-side comparison of

tracking and issue alongside someone using SEU.

I have tried that, usually I send the link to this:
http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/iadthelp/v8r0/index.jsp?topic=%2F
c o m .ibm.etools.iseries.rse.doc%2Ftopics%2Fctransition.html

I have learned that I can only spoon feed to those willing to give it

even a try...

So, on the rare occasions, I get to show the power of RDP, I have to

"dial it back", and it very basic! That does much better! Otherwise most
developers get system overload.

I was told that maybe I could do demo of the basics in a conference

room for 1-hour during lunch...

Maybe they said in Two weeks...

On 2013-10-09, at 11:33 AM, Ken Killian <kkillian@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I concur!

But with less than 25% of the Developers even trying Rational

Developer. It is a hard sell...

Why are over %75 Developer NOT NEEDING it? Are you NOT able to

program without Rational Developer?

<sigh>

Hence, why I am trying all the time to get my fellow co-workers in

another building to try it! They might like it, if they would only take
some time! But, when they ran into lock-ups. They said why bother? That
happened on RDP 8.5 with the memory leak. They said they might try again,
if it ever gets more stable... <Big Frown> And the Debug job didn't not
work on RDP 8.5. SEU is ROCK Solid, and never "blows-up"...

I should not have pushed RDP 8.5 when it first came out to my

co-workers.

:(

So far, over all RDP 8.0.3 has been ROCK SOLID for me! It runs all

days, and never locks up! The Debug job on RDP 8.0.3 has NEVER failed me!
My only issue is that outline view does not work when I do NOT hard-code
the Program name on the "PI" (Procedure Interface). That is my only issue.

After all the Microsoft Studio Dot net Developers have their Visual

Studio. Which includes SQL Studio management and all Microsoft products.
But, they have GUI Developer, rather than the ancient "green screens" by
that old tired AS400 (Power system running IBM i). So, data is being
migrated over to Microsoft SQL. Don't get me started on that! <rant rant>
Shucks the C# people could use a SEU/Notepad to write code, but why would
they? The same cannot be said for the "main-frame/AS400" (a.k.a. power
system running IBM i).

So, if I had any pull, I would say BUY the maintenance Agreement,
and keep me UP TODATE! <Joy Joy>

I rather keep my job, than have a really great "Editor"! <LOL>

-Ken Killian-

-----Original Message-----
From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
darren@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 10:45 AM
To: Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio
Client for System i & iSeries
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Technology refresh enhancements for
free-form statements

From a budget perspective, it might be a good idea to sell
"Maintenance" so

you're not having to beg for each version upgrade.

From: Ken Killian <kkillian@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development

Studio

Client for System i & iSeries"

<wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Date: 10/09/2013 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Technology refresh enhancements for

free-form

statements
Sent by: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx

Will RDP support this forthcoming Free-Form specs? Or must you
upgrade to RDI, and no backwards compatibility Again for previous

releases...

<frown>

I am begging for the upgrade at my company, but "budget concerns"

have cropped up again...

<sadly>

-Ken Killian-

-----Original Message-----
From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Terry Hertel
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:50 PM
To: 'wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [WDSCI-L] Technology refresh enhancements for free-form
statements

Will RDi support the forthcoming free-form control, file-declaration,

data-declaration, and procedure statements when the technology refresh is
released?

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Jon Paris

www.partner400.com
www.SystemiDeveloper.com

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Jon Paris

www.partner400.com
www.SystemiDeveloper.com

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