Re: Drag-and-drop editing - PLEASE!

Vern

At 12:58 PM 3/19/2007, you wrote:

Hi Bob,

I went though our list of requirements, and while there was drag and drop
requests from one view in WDSC (ie from table view) to the editor, there
wasn't one for your particular request.
I have added it to our list.

thanks,

Violaine Batthish
WebSphere Development Studio Client, IBM Toronto Lab


wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 03/19/2007 01:09:09 PM:

> Joe,
>
> >>If you choose to abandon a tool because it doesn't have one of your
favorite
> UI conveniences then that's your prerogative.  What are you gonna do,
Bob, go
> back to SEU?
>
> No. I would go back to CodeStudio (but I don't want to)--which has some
> limitations, but its much more Windows-like for editing, it is (imho)
vastly
> superior to the RSE editor, unless you really LOVE SEU and want
thatinterface.
> I love SEU's interface on the Green Screen.
> I HATE!!!!!!!!!! SEU's interface in a GUI--it slows you down some 50to
90% in
> productivity. Moving over to line commands? Sheeze!
> For example, how do you delete a line of source?
> In CodeStudio you press Ctrl+D.
> I cannot find an equivalent in WDSC.
> I know I can move over to the SEU seqnbr and enter a D, then press
> Enter. But I
> want to go back to green screen SEU every time I have to do that.
>
> >>Or are you going to just abandon a great product that everybody is
using
> because you can't drag and drop a line?
>
> Ah... "everybody" isn't using it. If you find 5,000 users (out of
> what? 300,000
> to 600,000 world-wide) using it, I'd be surprised.
> "everybody" is subjective.
>
> No Joe, I want it to work, I want it to be successful. I am planningon
being a
> advocate for it. I'm just very surprised that in 2006 a tool as strong as
WDSC
> has many (all?) of the limitations and shortcomings that Editing that
CODE/400
> had so many years ago.
>
> Some of my experiences are simply a lack of time using RSE--but that will
> change, I tend to pick things up quickly.
>
> And please don't compare a toy like Notepad that is bundled with a $200
OS to
> WDSC. Notepad is Windows' "UPDDTA" or SEU. It is not Microsoft Visual
Studio.
> You expect and accept limitations in Notepad and SEU, you don't
> expect or accept
> them in the professional development environment.
>
> At some point the RPG community has to let go of the SEU/PDM/SDA
> nipple. But if
> the replacement offers that same user-interface, you'll only get
> limited buy-in.
> People that hate green screen editing will move to anything (even
> Notepad), but
> the majority will not see a compelling reason to go through a large
learning
> curve only to do exactly what they are already doing, nearly the same way
they
> are doing it, but with lipstick.
>
> The good news in WDSC 7, to me, is WDSC is a great improvement over the
old
> CODE/400 package. I can load it, edit, close it down, open it back up,
and it
> does all of that very quickly. It also doesn't take long to pull down a
member
> and save it back to the host.
>
>
> -Bob Cozzi
> www.i5PodCast.com
> Ask your manager to watch i5 TV
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> Behalf Of Joe Pluta
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:42 AM
> To: 'Websphere Development Studio Client for iSeries'
> Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Drag-and-drop editing - PLEASE!
>
> > From: Bob Cozzi
> >
> > Joe,
> > I know you have much more experience with WDSC and I, but I have to
> > disagree.
>
> You don't have to.  You just want to <grin>.
>
>
> > I think if you want people to use a product you need some level of
> > familiarity--no doubt. But if you also don't have anything new, such as
> > expected
> > GUI-based editor behavior (in this case), then you'll turn off those
who
> > will
> > actually be taking the early steps towards using the tool.
>
> I guess it depends on what "expected" means.  WDSC has 100% of the text
> editing capabilities of Notepad.  And the only thing additional that
Wordpad
> has is drag and drop.
>
>
> > As for drag/drop editing. This feature is editor writing 101. I move
lines
> > of
> > code all the time. I have to do the C and A SEU thing to make that
happen
> > in
> > WDSC today. The Cut/paste function only partially works, so I almost
never
> > use
> > it, and never use it for full lines of text.
>
> Home.  Shift-down-arrow (once for each line to copy).  Ctrl-C or
Ctrl-insert
> to copy, Ctrl-X or Shift-Delete to cut.  Move cursor to target position.
> Ctrl-V or Shift-Insert to paste.
>
> Every one of these keystrokes is Windows standard and works in every
Windows
> application -- including WDSC.
>
>
> > Try double-clicking on a
> > qualified
> > data structure subfield name in the calc specs, then Ctrl+C, then try
> > pasting it
> > someplace else. You don't get what you copied, you get the qualified DS
> > name and
> > that's it.
>
> Not in my version.  When I double click, the LPEX editor marks the entire
> qualified name, including array index.  For example, I double-click on
> Bankroll in a statement using a qualifed data structure, and the LPEX
edit
> marks "Players(iCurrentPlayer).Bankroll".  If I hit Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V (or
in
> my case, Ctrl-Insert and Shift-Insert), that's exactly what is copied and
> pasted.
>
>
> > I'm used to moving the mouse to the left of the line, the pointer then
> > turns and
> > points to the "2 o'clock" position and I click to select the line or
click
> > and
> > drag to select multiple lines, then I move the mouse into the selecded
> > area and
> > it turns back to the 10 o'clock position and I drag the line(s) to a
new
> > location. So easy, so productive, so sexy.
>
> That's a Microsoft Word subtlety.  It doesn't work in Notepad, doesn't
work
> in Powerpoint, doesn't work in a lot of programs.
>
> Personally, I try to teach people to use cut and paste to the clipboard
> because it's much easier to move across a visible page boundary (it's
nearly
> impossible to drag code from the beginning of a long program to the end).
> Also, there's a lot less chance of an accidental drop and the
corresponding
> frustration.
>
> One man's productivity is another man's annoyance.
>
>
> > I abandon CODE/400 because it didn't have this feature, I'll probably
> > eventually abandon WDSC if it isn't added relatively soon.
>
> If you choose to abandon a tool because it doesn't have one of your
favorite
> UI conveniences then that's your prerogative.  What are you gonna do,
Bob,
> go back to SEU?  Are you going to tell RPG developers to go back to SEU
> because WDSC is missing your favorite feature?
>
> Or are you going to just abandon a great product that everybody is using
> because you can't drag and drop a line?
>
>
> In any event, something of this fundamental a nature won't come from
WDSC,
> it will have to come from the Eclipse team.  From what I understand,
Eclipse
> 3.3 actually has drag and drop text support, although I haven't tested it
> myself.  If you're truly worried about the future of WDSC, I suggest you
> download the latest version of Eclipse and play with it, and even get
> involved in the user community.
>
>
> Joe

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