Re: Drag-and-drop editing - PLEASE!

Joe,

If you choose to abandon a tool because it doesn't have one of your favorite

UI conveniences then that's your prerogative.  What are you gonna do, Bob, go
back to SEU?  

No. I would go back to CodeStudio (but I don't want to)--which has some
limitations, but its much more Windows-like for editing, it is (imho) vastly
superior to the RSE editor, unless you really LOVE SEU and want that interface.
I love SEU's interface on the Green Screen.
I HATE!!!!!!!!!! SEU's interface in a GUI--it slows you down some 50 to 90% in
productivity. Moving over to line commands? Sheeze!
For example, how do you delete a line of source? 
In CodeStudio you press Ctrl+D. 
I cannot find an equivalent in WDSC.
I know I can move over to the SEU seqnbr and enter a D, then press Enter. But I
want to go back to green screen SEU every time I have to do that.

Or are you going to just abandon a great product that everybody is using

because you can't drag and drop a line?

Ah... "everybody" isn't using it. If you find 5,000 users (out of what? 300,000
to 600,000 world-wide) using it, I'd be surprised.
"everybody" is subjective.

No Joe, I want it to work, I want it to be successful. I am planning on being a
advocate for it. I'm just very surprised that in 2006 a tool as strong as WDSC
has many (all?) of the limitations and shortcomings that Editing that CODE/400
had so many years ago. 

Some of my experiences are simply a lack of time using RSE--but that will
change, I tend to pick things up quickly. 

And please don't compare a toy like Notepad that is bundled with a $200 OS to
WDSC. Notepad is Windows' "UPDDTA" or SEU. It is not Microsoft Visual Studio.
You expect and accept limitations in Notepad and SEU, you don't expect or accept
them in the professional development environment. 

At some point the RPG community has to let go of the SEU/PDM/SDA nipple. But if
the replacement offers that same user-interface, you'll only get limited buy-in.
People that hate green screen editing will move to anything (even Notepad), but
the majority will not see a compelling reason to go through a large learning
curve only to do exactly what they are already doing, nearly the same way they
are doing it, but with lipstick.

The good news in WDSC 7, to me, is WDSC is a great improvement over the old
CODE/400 package. I can load it, edit, close it down, open it back up, and it
does all of that very quickly. It also doesn't take long to pull down a member
and save it back to the host.


-Bob Cozzi
www.i5PodCast.com
Ask your manager to watch i5 TV



-----Original Message-----
From: wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Joe Pluta
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:42 AM
To: 'Websphere Development Studio Client for iSeries'
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Drag-and-drop editing - PLEASE!

From: Bob Cozzi

Joe,
I know you have much more experience with WDSC and I, but I have to
disagree.

You don't have to.  You just want to <grin>.

I think if you want people to use a product you need some level of
familiarity--no doubt. But if you also don't have anything new, such as
expected
GUI-based editor behavior (in this case), then you'll turn off those who
will
actually be taking the early steps towards using the tool.

I guess it depends on what "expected" means.  WDSC has 100% of the text
editing capabilities of Notepad.  And the only thing additional that Wordpad
has is drag and drop.

As for drag/drop editing. This feature is editor writing 101. I move lines
of
code all the time. I have to do the C and A SEU thing to make that happen
in
WDSC today. The Cut/paste function only partially works, so I almost never
use
it, and never use it for full lines of text.

Home.  Shift-down-arrow (once for each line to copy).  Ctrl-C or Ctrl-insert
to copy, Ctrl-X or Shift-Delete to cut.  Move cursor to target position.
Ctrl-V or Shift-Insert to paste.

Every one of these keystrokes is Windows standard and works in every Windows
application -- including WDSC.

Try double-clicking on a
qualified
data structure subfield name in the calc specs, then Ctrl+C, then try
pasting it
someplace else. You don't get what you copied, you get the qualified DS
name and
that's it.

Not in my version.  When I double click, the LPEX editor marks the entire
qualified name, including array index.  For example, I double-click on
Bankroll in a statement using a qualifed data structure, and the LPEX edit
marks "Players(iCurrentPlayer).Bankroll".  If I hit Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V (or in
my case, Ctrl-Insert and Shift-Insert), that's exactly what is copied and
pasted.

I'm used to moving the mouse to the left of the line, the pointer then
turns and
points to the "2 o'clock" position and I click to select the line or click
and
drag to select multiple lines, then I move the mouse into the selecded
area and
it turns back to the 10 o'clock position and I drag the line(s) to a new
location. So easy, so productive, so sexy.

That's a Microsoft Word subtlety.  It doesn't work in Notepad, doesn't work
in Powerpoint, doesn't work in a lot of programs.

Personally, I try to teach people to use cut and paste to the clipboard
because it's much easier to move across a visible page boundary (it's nearly
impossible to drag code from the beginning of a long program to the end).
Also, there's a lot less chance of an accidental drop and the corresponding
frustration.

One man's productivity is another man's annoyance.

I abandon CODE/400 because it didn't have this feature, I'll probably
eventually abandon WDSC if it isn't added relatively soon.

If you choose to abandon a tool because it doesn't have one of your favorite
UI conveniences then that's your prerogative.  What are you gonna do, Bob,
go back to SEU?  Are you going to tell RPG developers to go back to SEU
because WDSC is missing your favorite feature?

Or are you going to just abandon a great product that everybody is using
because you can't drag and drop a line?


In any event, something of this fundamental a nature won't come from WDSC,
it will have to come from the Eclipse team.  From what I understand, Eclipse
3.3 actually has drag and drop text support, although I haven't tested it
myself.  If you're truly worried about the future of WDSC, I suggest you
download the latest version of Eclipse and play with it, and even get
involved in the user community.


Joe