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Copying the entire set of Application, Library List, Task and Menu definitions into a TST or other non-blank environment is nearly as bad as changing something in the blank environment. If you do this then you will not benefit from any Application, Library List, Task and Menu enhancements provided via PTFs. If you modify Standard package "stuff" then you risk losing your changes when PTFs are applied. The elegance of the environment fall-through logic is lost in either scenario. Only place modified stuff in the non-blank environment. I think that perhaps the subtle way in which Application Manager looks first at the non-blank environment and then falls through to the blank environment is lost on some people. And if you want to see what pure vanilla code is doing all one needs to do is issue the AMT command and blank out the environment code and that way you eliminate the use of all non-blank environments for that session. You cannot do this is you have changed anything in Standard package. This can be quite confusing to the uninitiated and is certainly worth discussing. --- Richard_Caldicott@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > There may be a little confusion going on here. I > know some people copy the > whole system to their environment and then run with > that. The way I have > always worked is to make any changes in my > environment (lib list, menus & > tasks) but leave everything that is unmodified where > it is. The 9000 > range of tasks is OK in the blank environment but we > feel more comfortable > using our custom environment, especially as we need > it for modified > standard tasks. We have a few tasks where we > override the job and output > queues for the entire system. > > I'll be charitable and say I think the comments may > have been taken out of > context, but then vital information such as this > should be explained fully > and it is the job of the messenger to ensure the > correct message gets > through. At least it prompted one of the liveliest > discussions in a long > while. > > Richard Caldicott > Director of Implementations > & Efficiency > Tandy Brands Accessories > 817-548-0090 extn 146 > > > > > > "Chris Tringham" > > > <ctringham@i-cable To: > "System 21 Users" <system21@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > .com> cc: > > > Sent by: > Subject: [SYSTEM21] The "standard" environment > > system21-bounces@m > > > idrange.com > > > > > > > > > 02/15/2005 08:22 > > > AM > > > Please respond to > > > System 21 Users > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long ago, I was persuaded that the correct way to > set up S21 was to leave > the blank environment totally alone. Any changes > (to library lists, > tasks, menus) would go into the appropriate > environments. This advice is > repeated in the "redbook" that came out 3-4 years > ago. > > Now, Geac are saying that this is not the way to go. > Instead, any new > tasks should be created in the blank environment and > library lists should > be amended in the blank environment. They say that > as long as you use > library mapping and follow their standards for > customised tasks everything > > will be fine, and that this setup is easier to > maintain and understand. > No need to define the applications in your > "standard" environment because > you don't need them - you can use the blank > environment. > > There are some obvious benefits such as not needing > to authorize users to > both the blank and standard environments. However, > I still have some > doubts, but I am not sure whether I have just been > thoroughly > indoctrinated in the old way of thinking and just > can't think straight. > > For example, if I want to change certain jobs to run > in different job > queues, I can change the task definition in the live > and/or test > environment and it works fine, but I haven't touched > the standard > definition. If I make changes like that in the > blank environment they may > > get overwritten by a PTF or new release. Or is > there some smarter way to > achieve the same thing? > > Any thoughts? And have Geac announced this change > in thinking somewhere > that I haven't noticed? > > > _______________________________________________ > This is the System 21 Users (SYSTEM21) mailing list > To post a message email: SYSTEM21@xxxxxxxxxxxx > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: > http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/system21 > or email: SYSTEM21-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Before posting, please take a moment to review the > archives > at http://archive.midrange.com/system21. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This is the System 21 Users (SYSTEM21) mailing list > To post a message email: SYSTEM21@xxxxxxxxxxxx > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: > http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/system21 > or email: SYSTEM21-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Before posting, please take a moment to review the > archives > at http://archive.midrange.com/system21. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! 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