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Hi Jon, just to know what's missing in QBNRPII + PCML?

TIA
--
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Tel. 035 962885
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Skype: facchinettimarco


Il giorno mar 15 ott 2019 alle ore 18:28 Jon Paris <jon.paris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
ha scritto:

You can preserve the slot anyway. I don 't think that is the problem.

The real problem for the type of support that is being requested, as I
said earlier, is the operating system support needed.

Rochester have been asked over and over again to improve descriptor and/or
PCML support. The only changes they have made have been to PCML and that
was mostly because IWS needed it to improve the range of parameter types
they could handle.

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be asked for. Merely pointing out that it
is a very expensive proposition that has yet to show enough potential for
return to justify the expense.

In other words I'm going to remain happy with what I have and work towards
improving it. I'm not going hold my breath waking for more.



On Oct 15, 2019, at 8:41 AM, Mark Murphy <jmarkmurphy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hiding overridden procedures does not necessarily have to break
compatibility. I am not sure how it works right now, I suspect that the
exports appear in the service program in binder source order. Based on
the
way service programs work, I don't think you would necessarily break
compatibility of existing programs. Maybe it would force a source change
when you recompile though. Maybe a new binder source keyword that
maintains
the slot, but prevents binding to the overridden procedure except through
the common procedure name.

This would prevent the unique procedure names from being used going
forward
which is the point of procedure overloading anyway.

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:35 AM Jon Paris <jon.paris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Then you'd also have to have an extra rule that said that no overridden
entity could ever be called directly. In other words you'd break
compatibility with existing code that was being enhanced.



On Oct 9, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Mark Murphy <jmarkmurphy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

As I am not in a position to test this, my only real concern is that I
would have to have extra prototypes in my outline list (though this
could
possibly be mitigated by RDi). Maybe they could hide overridden
prototypes
in the outline unless they were specifically used.

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:13 AM Mark Murphy <jmarkmurphy@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

It should be able to if it were completely implemented, but as of now,
it
only supports character parameters.

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 9:29 AM Vernon Hamberg <
vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

wrote:

Jon

Could operational descriptor support help with any of this?

Vern

On 10/9/2019 1:24 AM, Jon Paris wrote:
"I'm not convinced it would be impossible."

Not impossible no - b ut it requires work at the OS level - RP{G
could
not do it by itself in any meaningful fashion. At present the
information
is just not stored anywhere in the compiled objects. Foe example a
program
knows its maximum an minimum number of parameters - but not what type
of
data and size they should be. Same with service program procedures.
that
data is just not stored by the system. The closest we come is when
the
compiler generates on request the PCML data for a call. But even that
would
require a lot more work before it could be used for the type of
introspection needed. PCML currently can only support a subset of
the
full
range of data that can be passed as parameters - so PCML has to be
enhanced
significantly before you can even think of using it as the foundation
for a
call mechanism.

Not saying it wouldn't be nice - just that I don't see it happening
any
time soon.



On Oct 8, 2019, at 9:24 PM, Peter Dow <petercdow@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I remember having this same feeling about having to include PIs and
PRs for every procedure. That eventually was resolved at the local
level.
Yes, it would be a lot more work for the compiler to have to look at
the
service program to determine the prototypes for each candidate
procedure;
I'm not convinced it would be impossible. Same thing with procedure
prototypes.

My understanding of programs and other objects on the IBM i is that
they can be composed of object subtypes, for example a file has
metadata,
index data, actual data, etc. To make things simpler for the
compiler,
how
about a subtype object containing the prototypes?

I know, Barbara does a great job and has more than enough work just
adding all the other things we want RPG to do, and this is not that
big a
deal. I just don't like to think that it's impossible.

On 10/8/2019 4:37 PM, Jon Paris wrote:
I thought that is what I had said Peter - but yes ALL have to be
present otherwise how would the overload one know which to pick? If
they
are not there it has nothing to compare with.

The only time that an overloaded prototype is not required is for
procedures that are local and the parameter information can de
derived
from
the procedure interface.



On Oct 8, 2019, at 3:52 PM, Peter Dow <petercdow@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Yes, but my question is, are the candidate prototypes *required*,
or
just the overloading prototype? If it is indeed fundamentally a
compiler
directive, then it would seem they are all required. And if they're
all
required, one might as well use the candidate prototypes.

On 10/8/2019 1:21 PM, Jon Paris wrote:
Basically the rules haven't changed. For a procedure/program to
be
called, a prototype (or the PI for internals) must be present.

That includes the overloading proto. Normally I would have all
(say) three protos in a /Copy source - I'm just going to add the
overload
one to that set. No increase in work except for the original
definition of
the overload proto.

This is all a compile time function and as I said earlier
fundamentally a compiler directive in a different form.

On Oct 8, 2019, at 1:11 PM, Peter Dow <petercdow@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Jon,

Assuming the FORMAT procedure and its candidate procedures are
all
in a service program, how do I use it in another RPG program? I
would
guess that I have to put the prototype in the RPG program, yes? Do I
have
to put all the candidate prototypes in there too? My thought was the
RPG
program using it would simply have

Dcl-Pr Format Override( ProcA, PgmB, JavaC );


but now that I put it that way, the compiler would have to go
to
the service program to check my usage against each of those candidate
prototypes to see if it's allowed.

--
*Peter Dow* /
Dow Software Services, Inc.
909 793-9050
petercdow@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:petercdow@xxxxxxxxx>
pdow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pdow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

/
On 10/8/2019 12:14 PM, Jon Paris wrote:
FORMAT is never exported because it is only really a compiler
directive.

For example thing of it this way.

Dcl-Pr Format Override( ProcA, PgmB, JavaC );

This is handled by the compiler much like a conditional
compilation directive such as ...

/IF ParmMatches ProcA
CallP ProcA(parm);
/ELSEIF ParmMatches ProcB
CallP PgmB(parm);
/ELSE
....

It is that simple.


On Oct 8, 2019, at 11:28 AM, Justin Taylor <
JUSTIN@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Is FORMAT exported? There will be times when I want it
exported
and other times I don't. My best guess is that it inherits from the
actual
procedures.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Paris [mailto:jon.paris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 1:04 PM
To: RPG programming on IBM i <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Latest RPG Updates

Actually it doesn't matter if the procedure is exported or
not.
In fact the overloaded routines can include programs, Java calls, and
subprocs.


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