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@steven,

you have to indentify yourself because your knowledge dosn't add up with
the fact that
you still are running QS36F - is a system you have made or has enherited?



On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

@john

somebody has to know their place:

http://latindictionary.wikidot.com/noun:servus


On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:45 PM, john e <whattssonn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

@Henrik

Ok . . .

But when you remove the server(s) from this picture and you have only your
smartphone you're holding a brick.

Thats server centric, in my opinion.

And it is an opinion. Thats what i meant.

There is no defined concept of "server" or "client" centric.

So it's more of a semantic discussion, which doesn't add much.


On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

@Joe

There is gantt and there is gantt and I happens to know the guy that
made
the payable gantt module for ExtJS and that is a very advanced module
and
has taken 3 years to develop.He also happens to be a frequently speaker
worldwide at Sencha conferences and is "in class" Jay Garcia.

I have used a couple of hours on DOJO and it seems very similar to Ext
JS
and that is in my opinion a showstopper for many "old" RPG programmers.

And what is an "old" RPG programmer? It's a programmer that for one or
another reason is stucked in the old RPG programming method (read fixed
formed RPG and no serviceprograms and procedures and no SQL)

For most the learning curve of DOJO/ExtJS are very steep simply because
it is OO javascript/JSON, an unfammilar environment for most RPG
programmers.

I have made a couple of DOJO demo's under my framework demo, the first
is
running at my server at iDevCloud, the second in the cloud and requires
a
mobile phone ready browser


@John

When I say Client Centric I was thinking of the servers role in native
APP's running
under iOS, Android, Blackberry OS, WebOS, Windows Phone, Symbion and
Bada
or
in coding EXT JS/Sencha Touch or Flash - all has their server
independent
SDK and
all has the controller (in a MVC perspective) running in the Client.

You can't use a server centric development tool or 4GL to create these
bin-APP's but
you can write them in OO Javascript/HTML5/CSS3 and create the binary APP
with PhoneGap.

This represents a complete different development paradigm than the
server
centric
development frameworks and it detaches the server from the controller in
MVC.

Let me give you an example that includes cloud:

You have an APP on your mobile phone that shows you a list of your
stocks
but
it also shows you the value of the stock in real time.

You may have the list and your holding of stocks on your IBM I, but to
calculate
the current value you need the stock price from a nasdaq webservice.

In a server centric development environment you would have to let the
server
get the stock price and make the calculation, in the client centric
environment
the client APP (that resides in your phone) is served by two different
domains
without any connection to each other, you may even buy/sell through a
third
provider/domain in the same application and echo transactions back to
your
IBM I
that holds your holdings - the servers in this scenario becomes just a
data
provider/
transaction processor and nothing more.

None of the servers are aware of your client APP - it just serves and
your
IBM
I
just becomes another cloud service to the APP even though it is in your
privat "cloud"
resource/domain.


@4GL vs. RPG

The problem with most 4GL's and WYSIWYG development is that they ties
the
client
code to the server code - in other words they dosn't truely creates a
client unaware and
reusable SOA layer simply because most WYSIWYG's isn't build on a "doing
your
homework first" strategy (which programmers notoriously hate).




On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:46 PM, john e <whattssonn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hendrik said:
EGL is server centric while the world is moving towards client
centric

I don't know about both statements in that one sentence.

EGL is not server centric, you can even use the EGL Rich UI which is
definitely client centric.

EGL is more totalitarian, all encompassing, one tool for all your
needs.
This is what i don't like, in these tools in general, not EGL
specific.

However, it's flexible enough to suite anyones needs i suppose, but
still.

And the world is not going towards client centric.

You can also say "the world" is going server (cloud) centric.
The google vision, so to say, where all data is in the client, and you
have
all these different devices such as smartphones and tablets which act
as
"windows" to the data in the cloud.

I would say the world is more moving towards server centric.

But, it depends, like always


On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

@Joe,

the problem is that like in an android/iOS app that has their own
SDK
EGL
dosn't support
a wide range of other client frameworks like EXT JS or Sencha Touch.

EGL is server centric while the world is moving towards client
centric


On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Joe Pluta <
joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
wrote:

On 3/13/2012 7:47 AM, john e wrote:
Anyway, i suppose you don't have to use "data aware" widgets
(controls)
if
you don't want to.
EGL can be used to implement an MVP style architectue.
But then you have a completely different story than in the Demo
room.
And why choose EGL then (because this is one of the "unique"
selling
points).

Have you actually tried the new open source EGL? The WYSIWYG
editor
creates widgets with varying degrees of MVC depending on your
architectural approach. Simple widgets with no intelligence for
applications with less future proofing required (say your typical
user
ID prompt screen), widgets with MVC capabilities that will
intelligently
bind to data, and full form-level MVC where the application talks
only
to a form and the form can be adjusted as the application data
changes.

EGL has perhaps the most complete MVC implementation of any 4GL
out
there. And it's all still part of the demo. :)

Joe
--
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--
Regards,
Henrik Rützou

http://powerEXT.com <http://powerext.com/>
--
This is the RPG programming on the IBM i / System i (RPG400-L)
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list
To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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--
Regards,
Henrik Rützou

http://powerEXT.com <http://powerext.com/>
--
This is the RPG programming on the IBM i / System i (RPG400-L) mailing
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--
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--
Regards,
Henrik Rützou

http://powerEXT.com <http://powerext.com/>






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