Re: the RPG problem - adrift in the PC-web wind

@john

somebody has to know their place:

http://latindictionary.wikidot.com/noun:servus


On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:45 PM, john e <whattssonn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

@Henrik

Ok . . .

But when you remove the server(s) from this picture and you have only your
smartphone you're holding a brick.

Thats server centric, in my opinion.

And it is an opinion. Thats what i meant.

There is no defined concept of "server" or "client" centric.

So it's more of a semantic discussion, which doesn't add much.


On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

@Joe

There is gantt and there is gantt and I happens to know the guy that

made

the payable gantt module for ExtJS and that is a very advanced module

and

has taken 3 years to develop.He also happens to be a frequently speaker
worldwide at Sencha conferences and is "in class" Jay Garcia.

I have used a couple of hours on DOJO and it seems very similar to Ext

JS

and that is in my opinion a showstopper for many "old" RPG programmers.

And what is an "old" RPG programmer? It's a programmer that for one or
another reason is stucked in the old RPG programming method (read fixed
formed RPG and no serviceprograms and procedures and no SQL)

For most the learning curve of DOJO/ExtJS are very steep simply because
it is OO javascript/JSON, an unfammilar environment for most RPG
programmers.

I have made a couple of DOJO demo's under my framework demo, the first

is

running at my server at iDevCloud, the second in the cloud and requires

a

mobile phone ready browser


@John

When I say Client Centric I was thinking of the servers role in native
APP's running
under iOS, Android, Blackberry OS, WebOS, Windows Phone, Symbion and

Bada

or
in coding EXT JS/Sencha Touch or Flash - all has their server

independent

SDK and
all has the controller (in a MVC perspective) running in the Client.

You can't use a server centric development tool or 4GL to create these
bin-APP's but
you can write them in OO Javascript/HTML5/CSS3 and create the binary APP
with PhoneGap.

This represents a complete different development paradigm than the

server

centric
development frameworks and it detaches the server from the controller in
MVC.

Let me give you an example that includes cloud:

You have an APP on your mobile phone that shows you a list of your

stocks

but
it also shows you the value of the stock in real time.

You may have the list and your holding of stocks on your IBM I, but to
calculate
the current value you need the stock price from a nasdaq webservice.

In a server centric development environment you would have to let the
server
get the stock price and make the calculation, in the client centric
environment
the client APP (that resides in your phone) is served by two different
domains
without any connection to each other, you may even buy/sell through a

third

provider/domain in the same application and echo transactions back to

your

IBM I
that holds your holdings - the servers in this scenario becomes just a

data

provider/
transaction processor and nothing more.

None of the servers are aware of your client APP - it just serves and

your

IBM
I
just becomes another cloud service to the APP even though it is in your
privat "cloud"
resource/domain.


@4GL vs. RPG

The problem with most 4GL's and WYSIWYG development is that they ties

the

client
code to the server code - in other words they dosn't truely creates a
client unaware and
reusable SOA layer simply because most WYSIWYG's isn't build on a "doing
your
homework first" strategy (which programmers notoriously hate).




On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:46 PM, john e <whattssonn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hendrik said:

EGL is server centric while the world is moving towards client

centric

I don't know about both statements in that one sentence.

EGL is not server centric, you can even use the EGL Rich UI which is
definitely client centric.

EGL is more totalitarian, all encompassing, one tool for all your

needs.

This is what i don't like, in these tools in general, not EGL

specific.

However, it's flexible enough to suite anyones needs i suppose, but

still.

And the world is not going towards client centric.

You can also say "the world" is going server (cloud) centric.
The google vision, so to say, where all data is in the client, and you

have

all these different devices such as smartphones and tablets which act

as

"windows" to the data in the cloud.

I would say the world is more moving towards server centric.

But, it depends, like always


On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Henrik Rützou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

@Joe,

the problem is that like in an android/iOS app that has their own

SDK

EGL

dosn't support
a wide range of other client frameworks like EXT JS or Sencha Touch.

EGL is server centric while the world is moving towards client

centric

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Joe Pluta <

joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

wrote:

On 3/13/2012 7:47 AM, john e wrote:

Anyway, i suppose you don't have to use "data aware" widgets

(controls)

if

you don't want to.
EGL can be used to implement an MVP style architectue.
But then you have a completely different story than in the Demo

room.

And why choose EGL then (because this is one of the "unique"

selling

points).

Have you actually tried the new open source EGL? The WYSIWYG

editor

creates widgets with varying degrees of MVC depending on your
architectural approach. Simple widgets with no intelligence for
applications with less future proofing required (say your typical

user

ID prompt screen), widgets with MVC capabilities that will

intelligently

bind to data, and full form-level MVC where the application talks

only

to a form and the form can be adjusted as the application data

changes.

EGL has perhaps the most complete MVC implementation of any 4GL

out

there. And it's all still part of the demo. :)

Joe
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