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Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 09:19:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Impossible to even think about rewriting in RPG
From: rory.hewitt@xxxxxxxxx
To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
john,
I write 'modern' ILE code in RPG, CL and C, using subprocedures, procedure
pointers, service programs and all the other goodies. On the i, I also write
code in RPGIII, COBOL, MI, REXX and PL/I. On my 'off time', I also write a
bit of Java and lots of JavaScript, HTML and other web 'code'. I'm still
learning other languages.
I use SEU for *all* of my i code. I've tried different versions of
WDSc/RDP/RDi etc. and I keep coming back to SEU. Maybe if I was just writing
RPG and CL, I'd use a proper IDE, but honestly. I haven't seen the benefit.
I really tried (for a solid 2-weeks, without reverting to SEU, and it didn't
'stick'. In my experience, SEU is faster, and for me, speed is everything.
So with respect, you need to back off on statements like "Anyone who is
still using SEU, really, REALLY does NOT want to learn, anything...". Maybe
rephrase it as "Many people who are still using SEU don't want to learn
anything...".
Rory
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:01 AM, john e <jacobus1968@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Give it up, Mihael.
Anyone who is still using SEU, really, REALLY does NOT want to learn,
anything...
I gave it up already.I don't try to convince my fellow i "programmers"
anymore with reason and arguments.It's simply too frustrating, and even
dangerous at some times (yes really),as some can become really emotional
about it.
I have lots of knowledge and experience outside of "i", such as Java, Web,
etc.Not to mention ILE and /free RPG.
I see my "i" experience as a nice "niche".It's only downhill and nothing to
expected anymore from this platform (as it was 10 years ago aready).I'm
amazed about the inertia surrounding AS/400, or "i", whatever.All thanks to
those spaghetti programmers (can't rip modules out, only replace it all).
The platform is declining, and as a freelance developer, with extensive RPG
experience anda lot of other knowledge, i foresee that as long as the
platform is not gone (lets say atleast 10 years), i can earn a decent
salary.
Anyhow, i don't have much competition in this market.And many in this list
either.
----------------------------------------
From: Mihael.Schmidt@xxxxxxxxxxxIs use RPG Next Gen Editor for all my software available on rpgnextgen.com
To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Impossible to even think about rewriting in RPG
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 06:30:18 +0000
"What do folks use other than SEU and PDM for their ILE development? " :
.
it automatically creates some boilerplate code. I never use it for that.
At work we are using RDP and the reason we are using it here is NOT that
Just having an editor which behave more like a "normal" editor and seeing
more that 16 lines or so is reason enough for me. But you get so much more
like the outline view and the errors of your compile directly in a view with
clickable error lines to go the error, etc... No more searching through
compile listings. Development is so much faster.
rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Yeung
Mihael
-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:30 PMwrote:
To: RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
Subject: Re: Impossible to even think about rewriting in RPG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 7:45 AM, <Tommy.Holden@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
completeUntil like 3 months ago I used SEU/PDM for doing ILE programming
herring.with service programs, modules & APIs. Blaming the IDE is a red
listIt's a desire to make the effort that is to blame.
Thanks,
Tommy Holden
I'm not *blaming* the IDE. I'm saying that for me, in my workplace,
in my opinion, it's not the best use of my time. Of course you can do
ILE programming with SEU and PDM. And if you do, great. I am all for
it. But it *does* have a cost, and is not only related to
willingness.
Look at Java for a much more stark illustration of the cost of an
inferior development environment. How many Java programmers who use
Notepad or EDTF or some such are anywhere near as productive as Java
programmers using Eclipse? There is a very real cost to having to
type boatloads and boatloads of boilerplate yourself. While you are
doing that, you're not really contributing value, you're not really
working on the business problem. You are typing (or copying and
pasting) lots and lots and lots of stuff that either the compiler or
the IDE should be able to do for you. It's a bloody waste of time.
For me, personally, I have not seen ILE code that is *so much better*
than OPM code that there is a compelling argument to switch. At least
at my workplace, the benefit is very close to zero. And the cost is
much greater than zero. If there were some demonstration that there
would be significant benefit (modularity, maintainability,
performance, functionality), or some way to mitigate the cost (less
clunky development process), then of course it would be worth
revisiting.
And this is why I have asked very plainly: What do folks use other
than SEU and PDM for their ILE development? Three months ago, you
switched yourself, so clearly there must be something better.
Note: I know ILE provides greater functionality. The benefits that
are obvious to me are embedded SQL and recursion. So of course when
those things make the programming much easier, it is worth the
overhead of the extra coding required for ILE. But honestly, the
stuff we do at my workplace very rarely calls for these features.
John
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--
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--
Rory Hewitt
http://www.linkedin.com/in/roryhewitt
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