1) To do the same addition in RPG, ==> tot += 22.22 + 33.33 + 44.44 + 55.55. Even a non programmer understand what this statement mean.
2) Let say you need a data structure to store some data and later on you need to save all values of this data structure to another likeds before you mess with the original version. In RPG, you do saveDS = originalDS. In java, you can either download that utility from apache (can't remember the name of the class), or assign each field in the DS (class) one by one.
3) The rest of you statements are based on portability. Well, java is certainly the most portable language that I know of. Yes, if portability is important to you, don't use RPG for sure. But portability comes with a price. It is slower, you have to do all type of configuration setup to get it to work, no easy way to handle exception error. Most java code I encounter are full of try/catch, log and exit program statements. When I'm looking at a program, I'm more interesting in the business logics that it is performing, not try/catch all over the places.
4) If you think java is so much better, why would you say "I think one of the best
combinations for business, is a mixture of both."? Which, by the way, I fully agreed with that statement. RPG is a great language to use as the M of the MVC design model, as long as portaility is not as important for your company.
________________________________
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Tony.Weston@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu 6/19/2008 10:49 AM
To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: RE: Is RPG 'DEAD"
Hi Lim,
I consider myself an advanced RPG'er, and fairly good at Java also. One
thing I have noticed about the phelosophy around java is everything seams
to be way to complex than it actually needs to be. The fact is, In Java,
things can indeed be almost as simple as RPG, and the more you learn about
Java, the more you end up ignoring the crud.
To counter your points:
1) In java, you almost always have use a java class to do something.
In RPG, you almost always have to have a program to do something!
... Java applications are made out of classes. You dont have to use the OO
side, though... I have nocked up quick and dirty Java code to perform a
simple one of task, just using the main method. for example, adding 5
'Decimal' numbers together, and print it out:
public Class DoSomthingSimple{
public static void main(String[] args){
BigDecimal tot = BigDecimal.valueOf(11.11);
tot=tot.add(BigDecimal.valueOf(22.22));
tot=tot.add(BigDecimal.valueOf(33.33));
tot=tot.add(BigDecimal.valueOf(44.44));
tot=tot.add(BigDecimal.valueOf(55.55));
System.out.println(tot);
}
}
This isn't too complex, now, is it... It is much easier to add
Integers/Long int's, floats, doubles. But, these type of container are not
good for business 'currency' type of field.
I need to download a utility from Apache just to be able to save value
of a variable (class) to another variable (another class)
Please expand on this... this seams a straing way to do things.
...For me, this seems to tell me that java is always missing something
Java can do much, much more than RPG. Try running an RPG program on a
mobile phone? Try running it on a Smartcard. Java's strength, is its core
syntax is much simpler than RPG, so can be implemented easily on a vast
range of devices, so the minimum is included. (This makes it much easier
to learn also). However, to do anything usefull, I Agree you need to make
use of the included libraries, or one you might find on the net.
It takes a lot of time search for what you need and download the jar
file, put it in the class path.
In RPG, To do anything out of the norm, you need to find a service
program, and add it to a binding directory. This take just as much effort.
You probably has already heard of hibernate.
Yes, and there is nothing similar in RPG. In Hibernate, you can change the
'database', and your business class application continues to work fine. In
RPG, you change anything on the database, and you have to recompile
everything, write migration programs, you know the drill!. BUT, you dont
have to use Hibernate, you can use standard SQL to access your database,
which can be on the iSeries, or on your PC, or in memory, or on a web
server. Try accessing a static database, held on a webserver, using RPG!!
By the way, the is an alternative to Hibernate..... Bean Keeper does a
similar job, but has none of the config files related.
I'm not saying that java is bad. But if you are trying to create a
business application, (IMHO) java is not even comes close to >>what RPG
can offer.
I created this simple CRM for my other half:
http://totspics.com/bizwiz .
This uses SQL, to access a local database on the PC. Even if PC's
supported running RPG, there is no way I would ever attempt doing anything
like this using it. Putting the athestics asside, What about the
functional aspects, such as having more than one window open at once, FTP
Functionality, Barcode Functionality, Graphical printing, Retrieving stuff
from a web server at startup, etc.
But, I suppose, if you're happy with Green screen apps, running on big-old
IBM iron, then yeh, stick with RPG. Personally, I think one of the best
combinations for business, is a mixture of both.
"Lim Hock-Chai" <Lim.Hock-Chai@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
19/06/2008 16:04
Please respond to RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
To: "RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries"
<rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries"
<rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc:
Subject: RE: Is RPG 'DEAD"
Steve,
Your statement seems to suggest that you think RPG is inferior to java
simply because RPG is not an OO language. So, regardless of what RPG is
capable of, it is a 2nd grade product. Am I reading you message
correctly?
I want to first state that my java skill is at an entry level and java is
all I've in regard to my OO knowledge: So statements below are base on my
personally experience with java vs RPG:
1) In java, you almost always have use a java class to do something.
Although java class has so neat features (extendable, inheritance,
encapsulation,..), it is quite cumbersome when needing to do some simple
task. Some simple tasks like adding value of 5 decimal variables
(classes) can be quite lengthy and hard to read in java. I need to
download a utility from Apache just to be able to save value of a variable
(class) to another variable (another class). And this utility requires
you to code you class in a java bean compliant format.
2) It seems like there is always somewhere in the internet where somebody
has created a jar file that contains some of the stuffs that you want to
implement. That sound like a good think, doesn't it? It doesn't for me.
For me, this seems to tell me that java is always missing something and
requires you to download if from somewhere. It takes a lot of time search
for what you need and download the jar file, put it in the class path, and
you have to read all kind of document to understand how all those classes
in this new jar file works. And three months late, if you happen to run
into those codes again, you probably won't remember what those classes
that you are using in you codes work.
3) One of the most essential things on creating a business application is
the ability to access the database. Search the web and see how many
people ask a question about what is the best way to do this. You probably
has already heard of hibernate. Have you download the document on how it
works? Isn't it fun to create all those configuration file?
Steve,
I'm not saying that java is bad. But if you are trying to create a
business application, (IMHO) java is not even comes close to what RPG can
offer.
________________________________
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Steve Richter
Sent: Wed 6/18/2008 2:25 PM
To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: Is RPG 'DEAD"
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Lim Hock-Chai
Lim,
a feature by feature discussion is interesting to me, but the bottom
line from my POV is that C# and Java have class libraries and RPG does
not. The reason is because those two languages have the features
needed to write and use a robust set of reuseable classes. RPG is a
good language. Applications written in RPG dont sink under their own
weight like they do in COBOL.
On the other hand, a case can be made that delegates, virtual methods
and now monads make apps written in C# too complicated to read.
http://blogs.msdn.com/wesdyer/archive/2008/01/11/the-marvels-of-monads.aspx
-Steve
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