Re: What do I use?

Some good points Joe. See comments below...

On Apr 14, 2007, at 3:15 PM, Joe Pluta wrote:

From: Paul Raulerson

I certainly do not buy that the web and its tools are good enough today.
They are --> maybe <--- about as good as running applications on an very
early System36. For subjective proof, look at the very sophisticated and
cutting edge tools Google has now made available - wordprocessing and
spreadsheet in particular. They are good, but not many people are throwing
out Word and Excel to change to them. The standalone applications are
simply *better*.

I've been avoiding this discussion, but I think I'll throw in my coupla
coppers just for the fun of it. First, the web is plenty good enough and
far better than the System/36. I've been modernizing 5250 applications and
using a browser interface and it frankly rocks. EVERY user that uses PSC
enabled software thinks it's better than the 5250 application it replaces,
and these are some really good 5250 interfaces.

I was not speaking of comparing a System36 green screen app visually to a Web App, I was thinking in terms of how clunky it was to design a sophisticated System36 screen. It is just clunky to design a web interface right now - everything is a workaround. :)

And comparing a 5250 interface to a web app isn't the right comparison either; compare a modernized web app to a custom crafted standalone application. Even spreading the comparison across Windows, MacOS, and X applications, we find the users are 3 to 1 in favor of the standalone application. Of course, like you, we are not sampling the entire spectrum of users, just the ones we sell to. :)

The only people who don't like the web are heads-down data entry clerks, and
they're absolutely right; for them it's better.

Surprisingly enough (even or perhaps, especially to me...) this has not proved true either. A well grafted GUI interface works ever bit as well as green screen for data entry clerks and high volume transaction processing. When implemented as a stand alone app that is; when implemented as a web app, it is usually too sluggish for the users. That was surprising to me, to say the least, but we have pretty much managed to prove it, even to ourselves.

To take that further, to do much of anything intensive with a web
interface,
such as play a video, you have to have locally installed software anyway.

Got nothin' to do with what we're talking about, which is business
applications. Business applications don't need all them fancy wijits. Yes,
there are certain high-end applications that may benefit from streaming
video, but they're few and far between.

<grin> With users inserting video and graphics into Word documents, sound clips into spreadsheets, and programmers depending upon context sensitive help in editors these days...

I do not even agree that web interfaces are the "way of the future." We
are
entering a time where CPUs are both plentiful and powerful, memory is
increasing by leaps and bounds, and everything is pretty much connected by
broadband. This is an ideal and fertile environment for locally hosted
interfaces to remote information and applications. (Broadband will only
get faster and better.)

And the browser provides exactly that!

Perhaps this is so, but I don't really find browsers are up to handling working the way I want to just yet. That may be nothing more than a symptom of workstations that are too slow though, I ;ll grant you that. But still, programming a web application is much more difficult than a comparable standalone application.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't currently some niche applications
for a richer UI. But it's my belief that the browser will be the delivery
mechanism for that rich UI; we're already seeing it today. But even if I'm
wrong, the traditional fat client is still dead: the idea of downloading
business logic to your machine and then executing it locally is simply

Joe

I agree with you on that, I just think that the applications we will be seamlessly downloading will provide more of the user interface than will the browser. I am making a prediction that the browser as we know it today will become indistinguishable from the OS before all that much longer - something more like an X Server, that applications load into and take control of.

BTW: That is good news to a lot of RPG people; their programming skills will return to being the most important part of their job, and their (in)ability to deal with the workarounds of web programming will become a non-issue.

-Paul

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