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I could perhaps answer this from my own experience. It's hard enough to get "some people" to convert their legacy apps from RPGIII to RPGIV to take advantage of the new enhancements. Even harder to get them to change the coding style from RPGIV to /FREE. Can you imagine the resistence to converting to a new language altogether? I would not want to be in on that company meeting I guarantee lol. Then you could have this instance: Ok, we'll do the new development in language 'X' but the existing programs will have to be maintained using 'Y'. At least that's been my experience. :) Cheers. Ron Power Programmer Information Services City Of St. John's, NL P.O. Box 908 St. John's, NL A1C 5M2 Tel: 709-576-8132 Email: rpower@xxxxxxxxxx Website: http://www.stjohns.ca/ ___________________________________________________________________________ Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill daparnin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx 28/07/2004 01:45 PM Please respond to RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx cc Subject RE: converting string to a numeric Forgive me for thinking clearly (and for being uninformed) <g>, but your comments got me wondering. I have really appreciated the enancements that have allowed RPG III to grow into RPG IV and /Free although I never did understand why RPG was picked over other languages to be the "golden child" of the AS/400 in the first place. I used PL/I in college and liked it. If IBM is heading toward a PL/I-like product (or dare I say BASIC) with RPG then why don't they just stop enhancements to RPG and introduce a PL/I language? To transition legacy code they could introduce a CVTRPGPL1 command. Maybe this is beyond the scope of the RPG list...? How about a PL/I list? <g> Dave Parnin Nishikawa Standard Company Topeka, IN 46571 daparnin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Bob Cozzi <cozzi@xxxxxxxxx> To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries Sent by: <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>@SMTP@CTB rpg400-l-bounces@m cc: (bcc: David A Parnin/Topeka/NISCO/SPCO) idrange.com Subject: RE: converting string to a numeric 07/28/2004 10:45 AM Please respond to RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@midrange .com> Sound like a case of "Class Warfare". <g> Remember, it isn't "fixed format" that people love it is RPG they love. Most people choose not to use fixed format RPG because: It is not as complete a language as traditional RPG. There's too much legacy code that would break in free format (MULT & MOVEL vs. EVAL, for example). Skill sets are not ready yet. Most RPG code is still in RPGIII. Most RPG application developers are interested in having programs continue to work; the don't care of a field has to go in a fixed location on the calc spec or can be in free format. The thing is, I don't think most RPG fixed-format programmers (whether it is RPGIII or RPGIV fixed format) dislike free format programming. They are just apathetic. And then there are those who are on one side of the fence or the other. But most (and I mean a huge majority when I say "most") RPG programmers just don't care about CompSci issues or language religious wars; they just want their code to work. For me, I used to love PL/I. In fact, I suggested that IBM use PL/I as the model for enhancements to RPG while they were developing RPG IV. I think the motto should still be "What would PL/I do?" and of course if the answer is something stupid, then do it right instead. Nothing amuses me more than watching people who are so strongly on one side of an argument fight to change the world to their point of view (as if the world was against them) when in fact, the world is apathetic to the cause. Live and let live as they say. -Bob Cozzi -----Original Message----- From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Payne Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 10:11 AM To: 'RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries' Subject: RE: converting string to a numeric There is no argument that I am aware of in java or any other free format language to convert to fixed format. My friends that program in C and java have never heard of fixed format, and are appalled when I show it to them. Chris Payne -----Original Message----- From: rob@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:rob@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:53 AM To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries Subject: RE: converting string to a numeric So is there an argument in Java, or any other language, to make it fixed format? Rob Berendt -- Group Dekko Services, LLC Dept 01.073 PO Box 2000 Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com |-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------| | "Bob Cozzi" | | | <cozzi@xxxxxxxxx> | | | Sent by: | To| | rpg400-l-bounces@midrange.| "'RPG | | com | programm| | | ing on | | 07/28/2004 08:37 AM | the | | | AS400 / | | Please respond to | iSeries'| | RPG programming on the | " | | AS400 / iSeries | <rpg400-| | <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>| l@midran| | | ge.com> | | | cc| | | | | | Subject| | | RE: | | | converti| | | ng stri| | | ng to a | | | numeric | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------| RPG started out fixed, so whether or not it started out free is irrelevant. Some reasons the free-format stuff isn't 100% yet, is because it is new. For example, when a new language, such as Java arrived on the scene, it had so many shortcomings and eventually became better (although the idea of Java is like saying English should be spoken by all humans in all countries... It just doesn't make any sense to me at all, but I, as usual, digress. <g>) The point is there is a lot of legacy in RPGIV/RPGIII's columnar instructions. Granted there are some (many?) at IBM who think that the MOVE/MOVEL opcodes should not exist (why aren't their equivalent in /FREE?) and those that think the truncating numbers on an assignment should always cause an error. Well, I could suggest that some people, way back when choose RPG and the S/3x platforms because they were unlike all the other systems. That is they did things in a way so that we could get the job of running business applications done. I could go on, but it could turn ugly. :) -Bo -----Original Message----- From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of rob@xxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 8:20 AM To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries Subject: Re: converting string to a numeric Can you actually see someone making the argument that an existing free format language needed to be converted into fixed format? If RPG had started out as /free can you imagine people actually arguing for fixed formatting? Are there strong debates in other languages to convert them into fixed format? Rob Berendt -- Group Dekko Services, LLC Dept 01.073 PO Box 2000 Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com |-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------| | "James H H Lampert" | | | <jamesl@xxxxxxxxxxx> | | | Sent by: | To| | rpg400-l-bounces@midrange.| <rpg400-l@midr| | com | ange.com> | | | cc| | 07/26/2004 05:43 PM | | | | Subject| | Please respond to | Re: | | RPG programming on the | converting st| | AS400 / iSeries | ring to a | | <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>| numeric | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------| > Call me old-fashioned but because indicators are such dangerous little > suckers I'd rather see an explicit SETON or SETOFF operation. > > Use numeric operations for numeric operands, character operations for > character operands, and indicator operations for indicator operands. AMEN! And leave languages that are naturally fixed-source-format AS fixed-source-format: if you're working in FORTRAN, for example, you can indent all you want BEYOND Column 7, but keep the statements at or beyond that column, and the continuations in 6, and the labels in 1-5. When a language is designed to have a fixed source format, free-formatting the source just makes it harder to read. You want free-format source? Use Pascal, C, ALGOL, PL/I, LISP, Java, or Modula-2. They're designed for it. -- JHHL -- This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing list To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l. -- This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing list To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l. -- This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing list To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l. -- This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing list To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l. -- This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing list To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l. -- This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing list To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l. -- This is the RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries (RPG400-L) mailing list To post a message email: RPG400-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l or email: RPG400-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/rpg400-l. 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