RE: RPG IV release levels and complexity -- RPG400-L

Ron,

I think if programmers need retraining to use /free, they arent very good
programmers. 

The logic is the same, its just a slightly different syntax, takes about a
day to feel comfortable with it(In my personal experience!)

Cheers
Colin.W

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Hawkins [mailto:hwarangron@xxxxxxx] 
Sent: 18 November 2003 02:23
To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: RPG IV release levels and complexity


Bob,

As application developers we design each new release of our software to run
on a specific operating release. So if the user wants to upgrade to a new
application release, they generally have to upgrade the operating system
also.

Since new features are not added to old releases, the only type of
programming done on older releases is bug fixes. Generally, we have not
experienced any problems with maintenance programmers trying to use features
that are not in the operating system as they fix bugs.

We try to encorporate new features that we feel are time savers to each new
release. But the programmers doing this work know what it is they are adding
to the package and what minimum release it must run on. We change the
compile option defaults to the minimum release so if they do screw it up,
it's caught very early in the cycle.

So, I'd have to say that we haven't experienced the type of problems you
have described.  In fact, I'm all for making enhancements to the language.
(What I don't want to see are enhancements that are only available if you
use /free. I don't see enough return on investment to make the leap to /free
yet and I resent seeing good language enhancements that we would use but
can't because of the time involved in retraining 20 programmers for minimal
gain).

Ron Hawkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob cozzi" <cozzi@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "'RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries'" <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <RPGIV@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: RPG IV release levels and complexity


Is it me or is it just too difficult to track all the different subtle
enhancements to the RPG IV compiler on every new release.

I'm consulting at a shop that is on V5R1 and another that is on V5R2.  Yet
most people are still on V4Rx.

In reading articles and going to training I'm finding all of the developers
essentially abandoning RPG IV enhancements because they can never relay on
their release being the one on which the feature is offered.

Three contemporary examples (but things like this happen literally every day
as we move this shop to RPG IV):

Someone is all hot to use the new UPDATE %FIELDS() capability to replace and
EXCEPT opcode with Output specs. They spent ½ day trying to get that to
work. Oops, sorry, that feature is in V5.2 not V5.1 :-(

Another one was trying to use qualified data structures. They're at V5.1 so
that's great. but then when trying to take advantage of the Data Structures
as Arrays. the get compiler errors. Oops sorry, that's a V5.2 feature, not
V5.1.

Another one happened when on a V4R5 machine they tried to use qualified data
structures. Once again. Oops, that a V5.1 feature.



There are but a very few of the daily occurrences going on in the shops
where I'm consulting.

Granted many people on this list don't have these problems because they try
to stay in touch with the latest and greatest, but.



Is this a widespread issue or is it just me? I mean a few months ago I
advocated that IBM either stop enhancing RPG IV on every release and only do
it once per Version. That way at least if you're on V5, you have the latest
and greatest compiler features, or you can upgrade to it. As far back as the
year 2000 I met with the RPG compiler manager from IBM Toronto and suggested
the separate the compiler from the version and just ship Version X of RPG IV
which will run on OS/400 Version Y release Z and later.  For example, the
ship version 2.0 of the RPG IV compiler and it runs on OS/400 Version 5.1
and later. So it would work on 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3. This would give everyone on
V5.x (any release) the same set of features.  To me this is the only
solution to this dilemma.

>From where I see things, a major inhibitor to getting shops to move to 
>RPG
IV is when they set out a few recon programmers to find out if its feasible,
you want that frustration level as low as possible. The way the compiler is
today, that is just not possible.

And forget that argument about why it can't be done, who cares why it can't
be done. I want to know if it is I a problem for us developers or if this is
an isolated situation.



Thanks!



Bob Cozzi



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