RE: RPG IV release levels and complexity

[rob@xxxxxxxxx]

I would think the larger shops would be running a HA solution and would 
thus be easier to migrate than a smaller shop that means a weekend of 
downtime.

Need, or 'so much better' are a matter of perception and I've got some 
projects to do versus argue that point.

'As far back as practical' is another matter of perception.

Take this perception.  If you write an application that only runs on a 
supported version of OS (which leaves only V5R2 and V5R1) then that 
application is now something that is 'so much better'.  The possibility 
that you could have dumbed down the code to get it to run on something 
unsupported is not a factor.  Again, there are numerous shops out there 
that would love their software vendors to say they only support versions 
of the OS currently supported by IBM.  Especially ones with legal 
requirements like tax tables, W2's etc.  Then they could use that as 
ammunition to get management to finally upgrade.

Is there something in older versions to stop the compiler from supporting 
versions that IBM is no longer making money on?  Well, rather than have 
IBM spend money to find out if they can support people they are no longer 
making money on, I'd rather they add further features to the compiler.

Rob Berendt
-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
Benjamin Franklin 




"Bob cozzi" <cozzi@xxxxxxxxx> 
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
11/17/2003 03:34 PM
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RE: RPG IV release levels and complexity






Most (all?) software for the Windows platform will run as far back as 
Win98.
Microsoft releases runtime support for those older platforms because they
know that a software vendor's Market Share depends on it. 
With the ability to leverage, for example, the latest HTML parsing engine 
on
all reasonable Windows versions in use, a software vendor and decide to
update their product to take advantage of the new features.  Often those 
new
features can run on all available platforms, but occasionally they only 
work
on the new releases.  For the later, they usually mimic the capability in
their code or issue a message that says, "To use this you need Windows 
xyz".

Large companies that have to go through large efforts to get a new system
approved or upgrade the existing one don't have the luxury of a small shop
where one person decides, "Hey, I think I'll upgrade this weekend."  When
the business is based on the system working the same way tomorrow as it 
does
today, upgrading is often a necessary evil, not a luxury. 
And what exactly is there in V5R2 that is so much better than V5R1? I 
can't
think of a single thing off hand?  In fact, accept for the Apache web
server, I can't think of a single feature in V5R1 that is "better" than
V4R5.  I'm sure there's a few esoteric or critical things that some shops
need.  But is there really something in those releases that would prevent
IBM from offering a compiler that does not rely on the OS release for
runtime? Meaning, sure you could require V5Rx for compiling, but any 
feature
in the compiler should run as far back as practical (V4R4 probably).


Bob Cozzi
Cozzi Consulting
www.rpgiv.com


-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:08 PM
To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: RPG IV release levels and complexity

Bob,

I think that it is more of a problem of people redefining 'broke' so that 
it doesn't include doesn't have any of the new features of the latest 
operating system.  Redefining it this way allows them to smugly say "why 
should I upgrade when what I run isn't broke" as the swamp slowly rises 
above their heads.  V5R1 has reached it's end of support (unless you have 
certain contracts or agreements, even with those it expires in less than 6 

months).  Isn't it time they just upgrade.

I do NOT want them slowing down features in the compiler to dumb it down 
to older versions of the operating system.  Just as much as I do not want 
software vendors dumbing down their RPG so that it will compile on V2R1.

If it in anyway, shape, or form, slows down enhancements to the compiler 
to allow one version of the compiler to support multiple versions of the 
operating system then I oppose that.

The frustration of waiting on a new enhancement outweighs the frustration 
of not being able to run that enhancement on an older version of the 
operating system.

The people with the older version of the operating system already have a 
solution - UPGRADE!

How much market share would a vendor who made software for W2K or XP lose 
if they only marketed solutions that ran on Win3.1 also?  Lots.  Why do 
iSeries people insist on such a solution?

Rob Berendt
-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
Benjamin Franklin 




"Bob cozzi" <cozzi@xxxxxxxxx> 
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
11/17/2003 02:39 PM
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RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


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Subject
RPG IV release levels and complexity






Is it me or is it just too difficult to track all the different subtle
enhancements to the RPG IV compiler on every new release.

Iâm consulting at a shop that is on V5R1 and another that is on V5R2.  Yet
most people are still on V4Rx.

In reading articles and going to training Iâm finding all of the 
developers
essentially abandoning RPG IV enhancements because they can never relay on
their release being the one on which the feature is offered. 

Three contemporary examples (but things like this happen literally every 
day
as we move this shop to RPG IV):

Someone is all hot to use the new UPDATE %FIELDS() capability to replace 
and
EXCEPT opcode with Output specsâ They spent  day trying to get that to
work. Oops, sorry, that feature is in V5.2 not V5.1 :-(

Another one was trying to use qualified data structures. Theyâre at V5.1 
so
thatâs greatâ but then when trying to take advantage of the Data 
Structures
as Arraysâ the get compiler errorsâ Oops sorry, thatâs a V5.2 feature, not
V5.1.

Another one happened when on a V4R5 machine they tried to use qualified 
data
structures. Once againâ Oops, that a V5.1 feature. 

 

There are but a very few of the daily occurrences going on in the shops
where Iâm consulting. 

Granted many people on this list donât have these problems because they 
try
to stay in touch with the latest and greatest, butâ

 

Is this a widespread issue or is it just me? I mean a few months ago I
advocated that IBM either stop enhancing RPG IV on every release and only 
do
it once per Version. That way at least if youâre on V5, you have the 
latest
and greatest compiler features, or you can upgrade to it. As far back as 
the
year 2000 I met with the RPG compiler manager from IBM Toronto and 
suggested
the separate the compiler from the version and just ship Version X of RPG 
IV
which will run on OS/400 Version Y release Z and later.  For example, the
ship version 2.0 of the RPG IV compiler and it runs on OS/400 Version 5.1
and later. So it would work on 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3. This would give everyone 
on
V5.x (any release) the same set of features.  To me this is the only
solution to this dilemma. 

>From where I see things, a major inhibitor to getting shops to move to 
RPG
IV is when they set out a few recon programmers to find out if its 
feasible,
you want that frustration level as low as possible. The way the compiler 
is
today, that is just not possible.

And forget that argument about why it canât be done, who cares why it 
canât
be done. I want to know if it is I a problem for us developers or if this 
is
an isolated situation. 

 

Thanks!

 

Bob Cozzi

 

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