Re: Benefits of Sub-procedures -- RPG400-L

>Bob Cozzi wrote:
>Heck even some of the "cool free stuff" people on this list
>and others are offering via the web is horse crap. They are not using the
>new stuff 'correctly' but rather are just writing crap code like that did
>when they used indicators, the only difference is now they're writing crap
>code with an IF statement in free-format.


Bob! Please! Don't be shy! Say what you really think!   ha!

Actually, I was just thinking about this yesterday, as a matter of fact,
only in a different context. I was thinking that a buddy of mine makes an
extraordinarily good living as a J.D. Edwards application integrator,
grafting new projects onto J.D. Edward's lovely code. That job would drive
me nuts. And we have a major application I work on at the day job that is
RPGII-based (dressed up as RPGIII), and all the new stuff most of us write
is in RPGIV (which is really RPGIII the way we use it) but we still have to
interface/integrate with that old code and it's a task that we all dread.
Which is why I also spend a lot of time looking for solutions in VB or Java,
when I can. Just so I don't have to touch the old stuff.

So..I agree with you. You have hit the nail on the head here.

The problem that I see is that, excepting the people on these lists, who
obviously want to learn new, better ways to accomplish something...the
typical RPG programmer just doesn't give a rat's _ss about learning
something new when they can code it the "old" way in a decent amount of time
and still get the flock out of the office by 5. Why should they ever want to
learn to use *MODULES and sub-procs, etc... when all they have to do to get
their paycheck is show up,  write yet another subfile maintenance program,
play on the Internet a little bit, and then go home?  Well...yeah...I KNOW
why they should care...but the reality is that most don't.

Ah well....

Shannon O'Donnell


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob cozzi" <cozzi@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "'RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries'" <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:03 AM
Subject: RE: Benefits of Sub-procedures


> <rant>
> The whole idea, in my view is to give RPG developers the capability to
write
> some really cool code and not just have some dumb-a*s indicator-controlled
> logic. What kind of fun is that to add on to or maintain... that's why you
> don't get developers going into AS/400 programming... the existing code
base
> largely sucks.  Heck even some of the "cool free stuff" people on this
list
> and others are offering via the web is horse crap. They are not using the
> new stuff 'correctly' but rather are just writing crap code like that did
> when they used indicators, the only difference is now they're writing crap
> code with an IF statement in free-format.
> </rant>
> My point is that we have to use this new stuff because most other
platforms
> and languages are using it already. If we are constantly the last group of
> professional programmers to embrace new technology, we will be gone.
> And don't read this to mean that we need to drop something like RPG and
> start using Java or anything like that... I am referring to something that
> has been around for decades: procedures and prototyping. I realize Java
> doesn't do prototyping and I'm not sure why we "need" prototyping, but it
is
> here and we have to live with it. If IBM could just build an IDE that we
> could use, one that could generate the prototype for us, then it wouldn't
> even be a question.
>
> Bob Cozzi
> Cozzi Consulting
> www.rpgiv.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Bill Hopkins
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 9:31 AM
> To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
> Subject: RE: Benefits of Sub-procedures
>
> Why hire a manager who has to re-write. Instead should you not at least
> hire someone that had the ability to learn what was going on in the code
> to fix it. Just by using a list like this and/or the books on IBM site .
>
>  Isn't that were the real money was wasted?
>
> Bill Hopkins
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "DeLong, Eric" <EDeLong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> 10/24/2003 10:08 AM
> Please respond to RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
>
>
>         To:     "'RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries'"
> <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>         cc:
>         Subject:        RE: Benefits of Sub-procedures
>
>
> Actually, yes, I think I would be surprised by her actions.  In her
> situation, the choices seem simple:
>
> 1) Call the guy who wrote the stuff for a consult.  Even without direct
> access to a terminal, his experience could have resolved her problems
> quickly.
>
> 2) Hire an outside expert to repair the problem.  Not as efficient, since
> the consultant must gain understanding the hard way.
>
> 3) Scrap a complete and basically functional app, and completely rewrite
> it
> (in an archaic language/style).  By far the least productive of all
> choices,
> since it means all the money spent on the initial development AND the
> money
> spent on an unnecessary rewrite are WASTED.
>
> observation:
> If the manager never reviewed the code before it hit her machine, then
> what
> does she expect.  It's her job to understand what her box is sopposed to
> be
> doing, and how it must be managed and maintained.
>
> This is sort of a hot button for me...  There's ever more pressure being
> placed on us to produce the highest quality software, with the richest
> feature-set, and snazziest interfaces.  Make it perfect and idiot-proof
> and
> stable and portable.  But write it all in RPGII so our janitor/junior ops
> programmer flunkie who programmed a S34 once back in 1984 can help to
> maintain it for the next 40 years or so.
>
> Eric DeLong
> Sally Beauty Company
> MIS-Project Manager (BSG)
> 940-898-7863 or ext. 1863
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Booth Martin [mailto:Booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:35 PM
> To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Benefits of Sub-procedures
>
>
> Can her reaction be a surprise? He's gone and suddenly she has a
> non-useful
> application and bosses breathing down her neck.
>
> In a perfect world all IT shops would have 20% or more of programmer time
> budgeted for training. But alas... it will never happen.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Booth Martin http://www.MartinVT.com
> Booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
> Date: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:26:28 PM
> To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
> Subject: RE: Benefits of Sub-procedures
>
> .....
>
> Another horror story I have heard in the past year - another colleague
> of mine had written a stand-alone application completely in RPGIV. He
> even designed his database with 10-character field names and date and
> time fields. He used sub-procedures. Then he cut his hand with a
> band-saw and was out on medical leave for 2 1/2 months.
>
> Needless to say, one of his managers had to make a change to his app.
> She didn't understand any of it, so, she re-wrote the entire thing in
> RPG/400. When he came back off of medical leave, he was told he could
> not use any RPGIV at all, ....
>
> Bob Cagle
> IT Manager
> Lynk, Inc.
> 913-492-9202 x41
>
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