Re: RPG and Web.. (was Using OO concepts in RPG) -- RPG400-L

Brad Stone wrote:

So less lines of code = better. I would guess there was no DB access in your example. If so, you would have to include any code from classes that allow it, right?
Even if less lines of code = better, then we get into do
you start including any class code used, or subprocedure
code, etc.. etc..  And also, we would need to compare real
world examples, not simple examples.  That's the problem
with Hello World... it gives a false feeling of completion.

Actually, it did have DB access. The original RPG example demonstrated building a web page using embedded SQL, and my shorter (debugged) version in Python did exactly the same. If my simple example written in Python gives a "false feeling of completion", then so would the original program written in RPG.

Irrelivent, but cool.  Then again lines of code.. where to
we start and stop counting?  And does it really matter?

Cool? Yes indeed. Irrelevant? How many LOC would it take to implement a web server in RPG? Go ahead, use whatever procedure libraries you want. ;-)

Simpler and easier to a Python programmer?  Or an RPG
programmer?  I understand Python might have better string
replacement functionality, but, that's a very small part of
the CGIDEV2 functionality, although easily one of the most
important.

I can point you to a testimonial where a programmer decided to do a project in Python without having done any serious work before in the language, and produced a working program in a very short time, even mastering some more complex aspects of the language to boot! (<http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3882>)

Have you ever even tried Python, Brad? It's an amazingly easy language to pick up. In the time it takes to learn some new technique or new procedure library in RPG, you could be up and running in Python.

Anyways, like I said, the string replacement functionality is part of the native language, not in any of the numerous class libraries dedicated to web programming. To see how CGIDEV2 functionality compares to functionality in the base Python distribution, read the Python Library Reference (<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/lib.html>) and check out Chapter 11 (Internet Protocols and Support), Chapter 12 (Internet Data Handling), and even Chapter 13 (Structured Markup Processing Tools).

We all have our favorites. But the key here is "hobby" programming.

Few of us have control over the language we use at work. But my spare time is very important to me. Of course, I'm going to use the tools that allow me to make the best of my spare time!

But is Python only for "hobby" programming? Would its vast class library be built if it were only for the use of hobbyists? Of course not! It's being used professionally in lots of places in the "real world": NASA, Google, Yahoo, RealNetworks, Red Hat, IBM, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories, Nortel, National Weather Service, the National Research Council of Canada, Walt Disney Feature Animation, to name a few.

I have yet to reach that point. And I've done a LOT of web programming both directly and inderectly, probably more than most, and most of it with RPG. I just wish I would have started to use CGIDEV2 earlier. :)
I have yet to have a customer, or someone I've helped say
"man, why did you talk me into using RPG for the web..."
 In fact, it's the opposite.  They're all so happy.
Most of my customers come to me after fighting with
Java/Websphere for a year or so, just asking "ok, what can
RPG really do?".  In a week I have them writing huge apps
and on their own (yep, I'm probably the only consultant
that works himself out of a job, but in a good way).

I think we're in agreement that Java and Websphere may be overkill for many iSeries programmers. Clearly, many RPG/COBOL programmers have difficulty even getting a handle on Websphere, let alone putting the pieces together into real solutions. Personally, I think it's unfortunate there's no "middle ground" in the iSeries community. In many respects, I think Python could be that middle ground, even if it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of Websphere. It's a much easier language to learn than Java, it's class library is just as powerful and again easier to use, and there's no reason you can't run it on an iSeries. You can download a native iSeries port of Python from <http://home.no.net/pgummeda/>. (That is, you don't have to run Python from a Linux partition.)


Get outside the RPG world and it is a big contest to learn
new languages, one up your buddy in the comp sci lab, etc..
etc..  But in the business world it's not that way.  It's
about getting the job done.  I know that's where most of
our ideas have differed in the past.  And will continue
too... we're living and working in different worlds.

Clearly! ;-)

Cheers! Hans