PLEASE KILL THIS THREAD! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL TOPIC
:-)
Tim Prostor
Manager, Information Systems
Things Remembered
5500 Avion Park Drive
Highland Heights, OH 44143
440-473-2000 Ext. 5428
tprostor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
P Think before you print
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-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-nontech-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-nontech-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Walden H.
Leverich
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:44 AM
To: Non-Technical Discussion about the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: RE: i5 Youngsters
OK, I'm reviving an old thread, but I've been busy... :)
Please make sure when you price your Windows solution, you price
in tape backup and solid backup software, neither of which comes
with a standard Windows server configuration (at least that I've
seen).
Actually most backup requirements (besides off-site, and sometimes even
offsite) are better suited to disk-to-disk backups these days, IMHO. But
if you need to include tape, it's more, sure. Want LTO-3? Add $2,500 to
the solution. Need something more basic, how about DLT at $1000. As for
software, depends on your need. I have automated, tested, reliable
disk-to-disk backups that run nightly on dozens of servers supported
with NTBackup that is shipped with the OS. Is it as full-featured as
some of the commercial ones, no. But SAVxxx isn't as full featured as
BRMS either. There definitely is reliable backup/restore in the base OS.
Granted, you can't do a bare-metal restore (restore to totally empty
machine) w/the base OS restore, but since loading windows doesn't take
all that long anyway I don't see that as a real killer.
In my experience, very few sites need 24x7x365. Nearly every
production
system, from banks to storefronts, have periods of scheduled downtime
where
all they need is a web page that says "will be back shortly".
Agreed, many can afford that. And to be honest, even many that claim
they can't probably can. We're in agreement there. But if you need
24x7x365* it's not that doable on a System i.
With proper journaling and save-while-active, an i5 need only be
unavailable
for short, scheduled downtimes. Something like an hour somewhere
between
once a month and once a quarter, depending on the workload, primarily
to
apply PTFs.
I may indeed have missed something, but don't you still need an
exclusive lock to achieve the sync point with save-while-active? I agree
that you'll need that quarterly or annual time to upgrade/ptf/etc, but
don't you also need a couple of minutes each night? In totality that's
not a lot of time, but it effects you every night!
That's something like 99.95% uptime; please identify the situations
where
you need more than that.
Simple. Cases where I have users that need access to the system 24x7.
Obvious examples are hospitals, and web-sites that are truly accessed
24x7. We can discuss, (as above) whether they truly need that access.
But if they do, or management feels they do, then we as IT need to
deliver it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that level of uptime for a Windows server
typically
requires multiple reboots because you have to apply patches regularly.
Actually you don't need to apply patches as often as you think. On a
server that's protected by a firewall, most of the patches _should_ be
applied as a best-practice, just like cume-packs _should_ be applied.
But unless you're effected by the particular issue, it's not a weekly
event or anything silly like that. More likely the same "regular"
schedule you'd to a cume-pack.
it really requires two Windows servers to match the availability of a
single
System i for all but the most rigorous requirements. Add THAT to your
"fraction"
and I think you might be surprised which is cheaper.
Sorry, I just don't see it that way. If you can afford regular downtime
you're fine with one of either box. Many sites have their nightly
windows for downtime and batch-processing, heck, I'd bet many sites
still shut their boxes off every night. HOWEVER, if you want/need
high-availability, you need two of either box. Heck, we didn't even
discuss how you'd deal with the _long_ outages as you upgrade your OS or
apply a cume-pack. What's a complete OS upgrade on a 570 take these
days. From going offline to completely online? That's backup/upgrade
OS/upgrade LPP/check applications/savsys? I don't think it's a 30 minute
operation. :) More likely a weekend. Does www.yourcompany.com say "we'll
be back soon" for the entire weekend? Well, that's a business decision.
So, bottom line, it depends. If you don't need 24x7x365 then you don't
need it. If you need it though, then you need two of either box.
-Walden
* A phrase that has always cracked me up too. Either it should be
24x7x52 or 24x365. But for some reason I always see it called (and call
it myself) 24x7x365.
midrange.com
