RE: *** ADMIN: September 11th

All,

Political descent is an American tradition.  Differing views expressed by
our citizens is not only a right and a privilege, but a responsiblility.
My comments should not be construed as an attempt to quell or denegrate any
other opinions expressed.   Although Saddam, Osama, Jiang Zemin and many
others might disagree with me....  ;)

This discussion won't sway anyone from thier own opinions, but I would like
to point out a few factual/theoretical falacies expressed by earlier posts.

Jenny said:
<<America has invaded politically or militarily many countries
whose only crime was to choose (democratically) a different political
system
to America's or to elect a leader that the American leadership disliked.>>

who?  I can't think of a single country who's verifiably democratically
elected leaders ONLY crime was the political system they've chosen.  Please
identify.

Steven said:
<<One country which has done better? Try the Republic of Ireland.>>

Huh??  If you mean that they are a country who does absolutely nothing on
the world stage, then I guess you could make a case that they do things
right.  But they can't even resolve the political and religous strife on
thier own little island.  What kind of example to the rest of the world is
that?

Steven also said:
<<Yes, Saddam Hussein is a t yrant, you can name 40 other countries under
similar regimes (you can even strongly argue the case that Israel should
be one of them) but none of the others have what will be the world's
largest oil field underneath them.
America needs to learn 2 lessons, 1) It's unqualified support for Israel,
and propping up the tyrannical goverment in Saudi Arabia is what make
America a target for organisations such as Al Quada. 2) George W Bush's
reasons for wanting to invade Iraq hold more to do with Oil, revenge for
Saddam 'embarrassing' his father, and boosting companies which make 'war
equipment', than a desire to overcome tyranny.>>

You are contradicting yourself there.
1.  if our only interest in the region is oil, how do you explain our
'unqualified support' for Isreal?  They have no oil, or any other
significant natural or man-made resource.  Our support for Israel costs us
billions a year, and serves only to highten tentions with the oil rich
nations in the region.  Where are our motives, if not to support the only
democracy in the region?

2.  the only embarassment to GHWB (the father) was taking saddam at his
word that he would abide by the UNCONDITIONAL surrender he signed.  He has
gone back on every promise he made.  And we and the rest of the world have
done nothing about it.  That you believe that GWB (the son) would risk
young men's lives on a personal vendetta (especially when the father has
come out against invasion) shows a simplicity of thought that is really
unbecoming.

3.  if our only other interest in Iraq is oil, explain:

a.  what stopped us from marching on bagdad during the gulf war?  saddam's
vaunted republican guard couldn't surrender fast enough when our tanks
rolled.  We had the power, we had the backing (tepid, but better than we
have now), and we had the excuse.  but we refrained.  That shows patience
and leadership in my book.

b.  why do we refuse to buy saddam's oil, supporting sanctions that limit
his selling to a specific amount and to specific countries (coincidentally
or not, two of those countries that do get his oil are Germany and France,
who are our main critics on iraqi policy)?  You'd think we'd want his cheap
oil.

3.  When NY or Washington LA or Chicago is leveled by a nuke smuggled into
the country by terrorists and supplied by Iraq, who will be the first in
line to criticize Bush for not doing something sooner?  Those same folks
who are condemning the tough talk now.

-----

No, America is not always right, nor are our actions always noble.

No, America does not always act in the best interests of the entire world.

Yes, We have things in our past and current policies that we should not at
all be proud of.

Yes, Our policies are usually designed to continue to provide our citizens
with the best standard of living, the greatest freedom and liberty,
tolerance and universality of opportunity the planet has ever seen.

so what.

Check out our generosity.  The good we do for the world via food, funds,
advances in health care, medicine and technology, and yes, militarily is
unmatched in history, and is greater than the sum of the next 10 nations,

yet it goes largely unappreciated.

I'm not sure if we should oust saddam.  I'm not sure the current
administration is right for the job, even if we should.

But I do know that no one else will do it, and if Bush is right about
saddam and 'the rest of the world' is wrong, well, that's a price that is
just way too high to pay.

Rick