Re: Moving from Green screen app to GUI because of push back

From SysOp view point, isn't Web Navigator comprises a "GUI OS" ?

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date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:53:02 -0500
from: mlazarus <mlazarus@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Moving from Green screen app to GUI because of push back

Nathan,

You're only partially correct. The application would need to be
rewritten, to some degree. But, the additional cost of the add-on
product plus the additional development and testing overhead made it too
expensive an endeavor to undertake, from the clients' perspective.

I went through this at several medium to small clients. Had IBM
included and integrated this functionality into the OS I would have
created some standalone mini applications, or a parallel function to an
existing application, and let them get used to having *their* data
displayed in a real GUI, with additional functionality.

There is no way that they would shell out for an expensive tool (plus
the yearly maintenance!) just to try it out to see if they want to go in
that direction. There are other details in play, but that was a big
part of the decision.

The fact that we can get a GUI to display does not mean that this is
an inherently a GUI OS. It's not. IMHO, until IBM decides that it's
worthwhile investing in creating a fully integrated, modern interface as
part of the OS, this box will be perceived as old and dated. That's a
shame, because it's a real workhorse with many innovations and
capabilities.

-mark

On 12/13/2017 7:56 AM, Nathan Andelin wrote:

Mark,

In fairness to Tim and other folks at IBM, it has been my experience that
when organizations migrate to Windows or Linux and Intel, it has little

to

do with the fact that IBM hasn't provided a GUI, or bundled it with the
operating system. The real problem was that the organization ran into
constraints within (in order of priority):

1. A legacy database (e.g. dates stored as 5-digit numeric; the list goes
on and on).
2. An application architecture that was resistant to change.
3. An IT organization who failed to respond to new requirements in a

timely

manner.

In regard to the IT people, the nail in the coffin that sealed their fate
was their proposal, or adoption of a screen scraper, and an attempt to
cover up the more relevant issues delineated above.

It had nothing to do with the cost of the screen scraper. It always

costs a

lot more to migrate to Windows or Linux. In addition to the migration

cost,

the ongoing operational costs are higher.



On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 8:39 PM, mlazarus<mlazarus@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Tim,

I was discussing this subject recently with a very respected member of
this group. We were both confused how turning over a crucial, and I do
mean crucial to the longevity of the system, piece of creating a modern

UI

is turned over to third party vendors instead of being fully integrated

and

included in the OS.

Some vendors have done an admirable job creating a product, but IMHO,
it's ridiculous to have to pay a large bundle extra to get what should

be

included and easily integrated into the system. It is also more

expensive

to develop using (at least) some of these tools. My estimate is at

least

25% longer to develop and test.

I have three clients that are jumping ship to a PC based platform,
another that has already gone in that direction (they used to have the
largest AS/400 config in the US northeast (which included 14 AS/400's)

and

another is in the midst of moving part of their operation to a PC based
cloud system. I haven't heard of a new member to the midrange fold in a
long time. I would imagine that they exist, but I think that 20+ years
after the GUI became popular, for IBM not to include this required
functionality, plus the GUI development tools as part of the base OS, is
just plain foolish.

No offense to the tool vendors, but I believe that this functionality

is

best integrated at a low level in the OS, not as a generic API in order

to

get the best integration, debugging and performance.

-mark

On 12/12/2017 10:44 AM, Tim Rowe wrote:

Yes!! Moving from Green Screen to a Mobile or Web based

interface is

being requested by many. Not just your either. In todays world

its

really
becoming a necessity. That is one of the reasons that the IBM i

team

has
been investing in Open Technologies that are being created to
interface
with our existing back end programs. Its why we have REST Api

engines

that
are delivered with the operating system. To allow our IBM i

customer

to
move in to this 'normal' world. Not only do we have many options

that

allow you to do the work, we have a wealth of great ISVs that

provide

tooling to help you make this transition in a fraction of the time
while
in many cases leaving your existing code virtually untouched. If

you

are
interested in getting a view of some of these ISV, please send me

a

note
and I can get you a list.

Or if you need more info on the options in the Open world for IBM

i,

please let us know.
Tim

Tim Rowe, timmr@xxxxxxxxxx
Business Architect Application Development& Systems Management

for

IBM i

IBM i Development Lab, Rochester, MN
(507) 253-6191 (Tie) 553-6191

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/power/software/i/are/index.html



message: 2
date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:19:29 -0300
from: Raul Jager<raul@xxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Moving from Green screen app to GUI because of push
back
from younger employees?

Go ahead with the change.? Go to web.

We began the change 20 years ago. Some user where against the

new

interface, and we had to restrict the green screen, but when we

put

it
back on, the users stayed with the web.

Once we learned to use the web, none of the programmers wanted

to

do any
more green screen programs.? The web gives a lot of resources ,

and

frees from the limit in the size. You can replace one program

at a

time,
and run "hybrid". Usually, by replacing just a few programs you

will

take most of the work to the web.

We use CGIDEV2.? It replaces the "screen" with a "mask" in html

and

the
RPG logic remains very similar.? (assuming you have small - one

task

each - programs)
A good web designer can do the "presentation" without knowing

RPG,

and
you can use it with minimal web knowledge.? Basic html is

simple,

but
not spectacular. Even so, it is better than green screen.

On 12/12/2017 11:04 AM, Ken Meade wrote:
> I had a request to update our interface from a green screen
application to
> a 'more modern GUI' because of an inability to keep new

employees

because
> of the look/feel of the green screen apps and the ability

to more

easily
> train them if the look/feel was something they were more

familiar

with.
>
>
>
> I'm just curious if others have run into this as a reason to
'modernize'
> their applications.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Meade
>
> Director of Information Technology |

kmeade@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |

> 603.444.3570 |
>
> 1309 Mt. Eustis Road, Littleton, NH 03561
>
> microsoft windows sharepoint services logo
>

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