Re: Is there a ProfoundUI tutorial?

Nathan,

On 1/30/2016 4:25 AM, Nathan Andelin wrote:

Sorry, what isn't true?

The statements made in your message that I was replying to.

"a very small application, especially a utility program performing one or a
few simple functions."

So... that doesn't apply here, it's not a small application.

But, almost anyone seeing "applet" will assume something like a Java applet or a similar technology which is not the case here.

That definition accurately describes the JavaScript "client" which is
downloaded to the browser when a Profound UI session starts. It's a
JavaScript file, but I believe the most accurate way to label it is
"applet" or "client". It's not a "framework" - it doesn't expose an API for
developers.

This is not true, it exposes an extensive API for developers. It's true that it does a lot more for you simply by providing JSON objects than something like jQuery does. But, there are other frameworks, like ExtJS that are similar, and still called frameworks. In addition to the stuff that's just "configured" with JSON, there's also an extensive API that you can use to manipulate things from JavaScript.

Ironically the size of the JavaScript file (approximately 750K) is about
the same size as the TN5250J client which I use, which IS A JAVA APPLET.
And the behavior implemented in the Profound UI client is very similar to
that of the TN5250J client. It "interprets" a "data stream" downloaded from
IBM i and "renders" it on the screen. And similarly generates a data stream
when forwarding requests to the server.

So anything that's about 750k is automatically an applet because TN5250j happens to be that size? WTF?!

If you examine the data streams which are passed back and forth between the
"client" and "server", you see that they have a lot of properties which are
comparable to a 5250 data stream, including the fixed location and size of
screen elements, both input and output.

If I write a program with Visual Basic, I drag and drop elemtns onto the screen, and they are placed at particular positions based on where I drag them. I guess that means Visual Basic is a terminal emulator by your definition?

If I write a program in C using the venerable Win32 API (the API at the core of the windows operating system) and build a screen, I will tell it where to position elements based on a position. I guess Windows is a terminal emulator by your definition?

The only reason you're comparing this to 5250 is because you know it'll sound bad. I wish I understood what your beef is with Profound Logic?

The Visual Designer component of our Rich Display interface is, just like Visual Basic and other tools, designed to make it easy to build screens with a drag & drop, point & click method. So it puts the elements where you dragged them with the mouse. This does NOT make it a terminal emulator. And you aren't limited to only doing things that way! For those who like that method, they use it and it makes their life easier. For those who want things to move around with the page flow, we have that too.

There you go aligning Profound UI with a popular technology. Unfortunately,
the comparison is shallow. You make a good point in the sense that the
Profound UI client runs in a single web page. But the alignment with the
SPA paradigm ends there.

What we are doing is an SPA technology, we use one screen that is updated by changing the DOM with DHTML, just as all SPA applications do.

Don't take it personally. I've said a lot of nice things about you and
Profound Logic over a period of many years. A competitor? Perhaps in the
sense that I earn a living by developing and hosting IBM i web applications
- also developing IBM i web frameworks.

Really? You've said nice things about me or Profound? Maybe if I'd ever seen anything from you besides putting me/us down, I wouldn't react this way.

Sorry, I disagree with that as well. "writing" and "reading" display file
records is a constrained paradigm in comparison to designing and writing
your own HTML, JavaScript, CSS, and IBM i "servers" which respond to any
type of event from whatever client you may write from scratch.

You don't have to do things that way, though. You can write all of the code yourself, HTML, JS, CSS, etc, if you want to, and just use Profound UI as a framework if that's what you prefer.

Also, when we use display files, we only use them as a way of getting variables to/from the RPG program. It's basically a way to pass parameters back/forth. We don't use the DDS row/columns, we don't use the DDS keywords, etc, etc.

Now that's just harsh, and personal. How many times have you written about
or compared various web or application interfaces, frameworks, or platforms?

My problem, here, is that you are saying things that aren't true that make us look bad. You are not one of our customers who uses our product, so I can only guess that you downloaded it once and tried it a little bit, and decided that what you saw is the whole picture. But, it is not. By contrast, I work with it every day, I'm deeply familiar with it's internals and what it's capabilities are. I've written a fair bit of it myself.

When you come here, starting arguments, saying things that aren't true, and putting us down, how am I supposed to react?