Re: cost estimate for a GUI pilot

Richard,



Anything we write on the net is basically to draw attention to either our
person, our methods or to our product (open-source or not) ;-)



It seems to me that we basically have much different main server side
technologies to deliver HTTP based apps on IBM I and therefore also much
different approaches:



The ILE environment



1. The RPG/Service program method/technology such as CGIDEV2,
HTTPAPI, powerEXT and many others

2. IBM’s RPGOA method/technology used by Profound, Look and ASNA



The QPASE environment



1. Java in various states hereunder Websphere, Websydian

2. PHP from Zend

3. Ruby on Rails

4. NodeJS

5. Others



Then there are of course all the client side stuff and frameworks. WEB 2.0
will eventual require some kind of client framework like jQuery, EXT JS,
Sencha Touch, DOJO and proprietaries (like Profound’s UI) etc. and
knowledge about HTML(5), CSS(3) and javascript not to mention the
differences in browsers rendering machines.



I’m not a big fan of the IBM/RPG OA approach because it was sold on
simplicity. To cite Trevor Perry “you can consider that your handler
programs are simply replacing the operating system controller programs”.



IMHO there is no such thing as “simply replacing the operating system
controller programs” specially not if you want to replace the 5250
controller that has a DSPF that contains information on how to render the
buffer with a WEB 2.0 controller where the rendering information is lost.
Besides that the code rendering WEB 2.0 is much more complicated than a
5250 DSPF.



So actually you will be back to square one where you need to feed the
handler in RPG OA with code on how to render the buffer in the browser
while you at the same time still maintain the controller and model in your
original RPG now RPG OA program (that was how RPG OA original was sold –
add a few OA statements and you were done).



Here we come to the funny part. Profounds UI open-source javascript view
and controller actually doesn’t run on IBM I but runs very similar to the
EXT JS in the browser based on JSON spec’s passed into it. Therefore you
can use any HTTP connector with Profound UI. The best proof is that Scott
has made a presentation using CGIDEV2 (without RPG OA) and Profounds
javascript view/controller.



http://www.scottklement.com/presentations/Three%20Approaches%20to%20Web%20with%20RPG.pdf



So basically Profounds Framework and powerEXT Framework (and others) uses
the same technical model for WEB 2.0 just with the difference that
Profounds also has a RPG OA handler to serve data making it stateful and
has their own UI Framework while powerEXT uses stateless RPG CGI to serve
data and the more general and more complex EXT JS UI framework.



In other words, you can take Profounds completely free, open-source
Javascript Framework and use my completely free, open-source powerEXT Core
instead of using EXT JS that my Framework is based on, exactly as you
yourself has used powerEXT Core to demonstrate a simple jQueryMobile App.



So Profound UI and powerEXT Framework is not so far from each other in
approach as it may seems besides that Profound uses WYSIWYG for anything
and hasn’t got an “assembly line” for speedy development of most commonly
used programs types in SOA/MVC browser based applications that also
requires a lot of general security and user rules handling.



Alex is of course welcome to comment since I refers a lot to Profound.

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Richard Schoen <
Richard.Schoen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I still think his Article was still fairly balanced in my opinion.

I guess it's how you read into it :-)

If I were writing it I would probably be slanting a little towards .Net,
you would slant towards PowerExt, Mike Pavlak slants towards PHP, etc.

In any case it was a good thoughtful piece no matter what evil purpose you
may think it serves.....Whooaaaaahahahahahahahhaha......

Regards,

Richard Schoen | Director of Document Management Technologies, HelpSystems
T: + 1 952-486-6802
RJS Software Systems | A Division of HelpSystems
richard.schoen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.rjssoftware.com

------------------------------

message: 4
date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:27:24 +0100
from: Henrik R?tzou <hr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: cost estimate for a GUI pilot

Richard



Alex may be known by us who actively writes in this forum but he is heading
a proprietary modernization company where .NET isn?t a part of their
strategy.



He will of course write articles that fit into Profound?s strategy like any
psychiatric that receive $1 mio. a year from Novartis will write articles
that fits into their medication strategy ? it is as simple as that!



Even Scott?s future articles has to be seen in the context that he now
works for Profound or did I missed something here?

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Richard Schoen <
Richard.Schoen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Henrik,

You stated the obvious. I think most of us know who Alex is.

Was there a purpose for your comment ?

I didn't read anything onerous into Alex's article, except for the part
about not using .Net :-)

Regards,

Richard Schoen | Director of Document Management Technologies,

HelpSystems

T: + 1 952-486-6802
RJS Software Systems | A Division of HelpSystems
richard.schoen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.rjssoftware.com

_______________


Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including attachments, may include
confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the
person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is
not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail
immediately.

________________
--
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list
To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.