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Today's Topics:
1. cost estimate for a GUI pilot (Gad Miron)
2. Re: cost estimate for a GUI pilot (Booth Martin)
3. Re: cost estimate for a GUI pilot (Vernon Hamberg)
4. Re: cost estimate for a GUI pilot (Jon Paris)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
message: 1
date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 12:16:27 +0200
from: Gad Miron <gadmiron@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: cost estimate for a GUI pilot
Hello pundits
I'm to come up with cost estimate for a GUI (modern?) interface tool
for next year budget .
I know there are several commercial tools around but I find it hard to
compare them
(i.e is Profound UI's method preferable to ASNA's)
We are a small RPG/Java shop (4 RPG programmers 3 Java)
but we do not intermix.
My immediate concern is to set a budget for the pilot project but I have to
decide
on the right course first.
I would greatly appreciate your advice regarding the tools, methods,
costs etc.
Thanks
Gad
------------------------------
message: 2
date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:28:25 -0600
from: Booth Martin <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: cost estimate for a GUI pilot
What do the Java developers use?
On 11/2/2014 4:16 AM, Gad Miron wrote:
Hello punditsto
I'm to come up with cost estimate for a GUI (modern?) interface tool
for next year budget .
I know there are several commercial tools around but I find it hard to
compare them
(i.e is Profound UI's method preferable to ASNA's)
We are a small RPG/Java shop (4 RPG programmers 3 Java)
but we do not intermix.
My immediate concern is to set a budget for the pilot project but I have
decide
on the right course first.
I would greatly appreciate your advice regarding the tools, methods,
costs etc.
Thanks
Gad
--
Booth Martin
www.martinvt.com
(802)461-5349
Skype: booth.martin
Be seeing you.
------------------------------
message: 3
date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:37:17 -0600
from: Vernon Hamberg <vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: cost estimate for a GUI pilot
Gad
It has been a little over 3 years since I wrote an article on Open
Access for iSeries News - now iprodeveloper - the link might be at
http://iprodeveloper.com/article/special-report-open-access-rpg-what-it-how-it-works-and-hands-experience
You do need a free access user/password, as I recall.
If you can't find it, let me know, I'll find a way to get you the PDF -
it's about 3.5MB - it was meant to be a pretty even-handed overview of 3
products, from ProfoundLogic, lookSoftware, and ASNA. I presented, based
on some conversations with vendors, what their methodology is. I think
BCD has entered the arena since then, but you'd want to check into that.
As to cost estimates - you'll best go to each vendor - prices vary
processor level - I have such an estimate from one of the vendors that I
don't think I'm in any position to disclose. Let's just say it's
probably more than 10,000 bucks and less than a million - a range of 2
orders of magnitude.
What value do you get - that should determine your choice. Also, what
would it cost you do do it without one of these products?
HTH
Vern
On 11/2/2014 4:16 AM, Gad Miron wrote:
Hello punditsto
I'm to come up with cost estimate for a GUI (modern?) interface tool
for next year budget .
I know there are several commercial tools around but I find it hard to
compare them
(i.e is Profound UI's method preferable to ASNA's)
We are a small RPG/Java shop (4 RPG programmers 3 Java)
but we do not intermix.
My immediate concern is to set a budget for the pilot project but I have
decide
on the right course first.
I would greatly appreciate your advice regarding the tools, methods,
costs etc.
Thanks
Gad
------------------------------
message: 4
date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 11:27:31 -0500
from: Jon Paris <jon.paris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: cost estimate for a GUI pilot
As I usually tell my clients when they ask questions like this - part of
the problem is that until you have tried to build a few web apps you don?t
really know what questions to ask. And you haven?t told what, if any,
experience you have. That said ...
There are so many tools to chose between you probably need to use some
broad categorization criterial first.
Because you don?t currently interact with the Java folks doesn?t mean you
shouldn?t in the future. Many RPGers I have met (myself included) are
dreadful at UI design - too many years of thinking inside little green
boxes! You are probably going to need GUI design help.
One basic question you need to answer: Do you plan to repurpose existing
RPG green-screen apps or are you only building new ones?
Repurposing would normally narrow your field to the Open Access based
tools such as openlook, ProfoundUI, Ansa?s Wings, Rocket?s LegaSuite, and
others I can?t recall.
If that is the direction you go then other criteria may play a role. For
example, openlook and Wings both use a Windows server as part of the
process. Wings will tie you into the world of .Net - that may be desirable
depending on what other systems are in use in-house. Profound is the only
one I know of that is all native. Not sure about LegaSuite.
If you want to build new applications that will never have a green screen
component then the range is huge (including most of the tools already
mentioned), but there are some other considerations that may impact your
choice. Here?s just a few thoughts:
- Is mobile part of the picture? Some tools, Lansa LongRange for example,
are for mobile only. Others, like CNX?s Valence has strong mobile support
but also can build conventional web apps.
- What are your Java developers using? If as seems likely it is JSPs then
a product that uses a JSP/ASP type approach might be a good idea. Icebreak
from System and Method is in that category as is one of the tools from
Profound. I _think_ Asna have one that is ASP-like but not sure.
- Are your developers familiar with the idea of application frameworks
(your Java folks probably are) - if so one free options would be
Renaissance. But others would include tools like Valence and powerExt just
to name two.
I would suggest that you try to narrow the field based on these kinds of
criteria. Get basic price quotes from those vendors, and then narrow the
field to a couple that fit within your broad budget range. Understand that
a cheaper tool will probably come with less free education and handholding
so you might want to get an idea of how much the ?extras? like that will
cost. Also remember that some products will have a run-time licence so
watch out for what your ongoing costs will be. Visit the vendor?s web sites
and look for free video presentations of what the tools can do - most of
them have them along with recorded webcasts.
Pick two (or three if you have time) and install the demo version. Give it
a test drive and see what you think. See if it ?feels right? to you. I
often find it useful to then attempt to quickly teach what I?ve learned to
others on the team - it often helps cement my own ideas.
Back in 2003 I was part of producing a series of articles on the general
subject of modernization - part 1 is here:
http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/ibmi/developer/modernization/From-Green-to-Dream/
and contains links to the other parts. It is more than 10 years old so
things have of course changed, but many of the decision points are still
the same so it might be worth a read.
I also often tell clients that they should accept that one tool may not
address all of their needs. What will work best for you when first get
started may not work for you longer term.
Last but not least - have you read the relevant chapters of the
Modernization Redbook? If not that is also a good starting point.
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg248185.html?Open
Hope this helps.
Jon Paris
www.partner400.com
www.SystemiDeveloper.com
On Nov 2, 2014, at 5:16 AM, Gad Miron <gadmiron@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello punditsto
I'm to come up with cost estimate for a GUI (modern?) interface tool
for next year budget .
I know there are several commercial tools around but I find it hard to
compare them
(i.e is Profound UI's method preferable to ASNA's)
We are a small RPG/Java shop (4 RPG programmers 3 Java)
but we do not intermix.
My immediate concern is to set a budget for the pilot project but I have
decidelist
on the right course first.
I would greatly appreciate your advice regarding the tools, methods,
costs etc.
Thanks
Gad
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